Baseball Dropped (Updated)

[Fessor]

Damn, you make sense, but I can’t believe you came out and said that.

Said it many times before and the response was always that "FB pays the bills". (Also, cue the "It's the UFFP forum" responses.)

The irony is that people hold out FB as an example FU's commitment to athletics, when it currently looks and feels like DII or DIII FB to me.

Ask Va. Tech and Ga. State if they think FU plays like a DII or DIII school?

Millions of dollars and we're hanging our hats on two losses. Color me unimpressed.

[Paul C]

Football is the third rail of Furman athletics

Cutting it or going “Pioneer” (non-scholly) and you might was well just go D3 and eliminate all athletic scholarships because support would dwindle to nothing. Including mine.

[FUBeAR]

Dang...you deleted your “Moms bringing oranges” post continuing your disparagement, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, of the extremely talented student athletes that have proudly worn the <F> on their helmets.

Oh well....as Coach S. Jackson once said, “Allow me to retort” (anyway)...

All it lacks is someone's mom bringing orange wedges for everyone.

Did you say Oranges? Man, I love oranges...and Furman Student Athletes who are good enough to advance to the highest level of their Sport.

Pos Player
TE Luther Broughton 1998-2001 Philadelphia Eagles / 5th / 155th pick / 1997
LB Marq Cerqua 2001-2002
OT Dakota Dozier 2014-2019 New York Jets / 4th / 137th pick / 2014
RB Jerome Felton Detroit Lions / 5th / 146th pick / 2008
WR Chas Fox 1986-1986 Kansas City Chiefs / 4th / 90th pick / 1986
DB Ernest Gibson 1984-1989 New England Patriots / 6th / 151st pick / 1984
RB Stanford Jennings 1984-1992 Cincinnati Bengals / 3rd / 65th pick / 1984
DB John Keith 2000-2003 San Francisco 49ers / 4th / 108th pick / 2000
G Ryan Lee 2012-2012
QB Ingle Martin 2006-2006 Green Bay Packers / 5th / 148th pick / 2006
DB William Middleton 2009-2012 Atlanta Falcons / 5th / 138th pick / 2009
DB Cam Newton 2005-2006
DB Jerome Norris 1987-1987
LB Orlando Ruff 1999-2005
WR Tom Southard 1978-1978
CB Ryan Steed 2012--2012
QB David Whitehurst 1977-1983 Green Bay Packers / 8th / 206th pick / 1977
QB Sam Wyche 1968-1976

Oh, btw, a total of 1 Furman MBB alum has dressed out for an NBA game (12 games) in the past 45 years. Many, many great Hoops Paladins over those 45 years, who I have had the distinct pleasure to watch and would never even think of disparaging their talents & contributions by questioning if they were ‘real D1 players.’ They were and are...exactly like the Furman Football Players & Team, who certainly do not deserve your insults, ARE.

[Fessor]

Dang...you deleted your “Moms bringing oranges” post continuing your disparagement, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, of the extremely talented student athletes that have proudly worn the <F> on their helmets.

Oh well....as Coach S. Jackson once said, “Allow me to retort” (anyway)...

All it lacks is someone's mom bringing orange wedges for everyone.

Did you say Oranges? Man, I love oranges...and Furman Student Athletes who are good enough to advance to the highest level of their Sport.

Pos Player
TE Luther Broughton 1998-2001 Philadelphia Eagles / 5th / 155th pick / 1997
LB Marq Cerqua 2001-2002
OT Dakota Dozier 2014-2019 New York Jets / 4th / 137th pick / 2014
RB Jerome Felton Detroit Lions / 5th / 146th pick / 2008
WR Chas Fox 1986-1986 Kansas City Chiefs / 4th / 90th pick / 1986
DB Ernest Gibson 1984-1989 New England Patriots / 6th / 151st pick / 1984
RB Stanford Jennings 1984-1992 Cincinnati Bengals / 3rd / 65th pick / 1984
DB John Keith 2000-2003 San Francisco 49ers / 4th / 108th pick / 2000
G Ryan Lee 2012-2012
QB Ingle Martin 2006-2006 Green Bay Packers / 5th / 148th pick / 2006
DB William Middleton 2009-2012 Atlanta Falcons / 5th / 138th pick / 2009
DB Cam Newton 2005-2006
DB Jerome Norris 1987-1987
LB Orlando Ruff 1999-2005
WR Tom Southard 1978-1978
CB Ryan Steed 2012--2012
QB David Whitehurst 1977-1983 Green Bay Packers / 8th / 206th pick / 1977
QB Sam Wyche 1968-1976

Oh, btw, a total of 1 Furman MBB alum has dressed out for an NBA game (12 games) in the past 45 years. Many, many great Hoops Paladins over those 45 years, who I have had the distinct pleasure to watch and would never even think of disparaging their talents & contributions by questioning if they were ‘real D1 players.’ They were and are...exactly like the Furman Football Players & Team, who certainly do not deserve your insults, ARE.

So we meet again, Mr. Bear. I've been expecting you. Please allow me to re-introduce myself ...

First, there are more names on that list than folks in the stands. (Too easy. Low hanging oranges, if you will.)

Secondly, the trend is definitely not your friend. You went alphabetical order. Had you instead gone reverse chronological order it would have taken me much less time to determine that there have been exactly three players in the last decade who have played "at the highest level". (I didn't realize Ryan Steed's 2-3 weeks on a practice squad was "highest level", but I'll give you that since you went to the trouble of copying and pasting the entire list. Gonna have to asterisk* it, though)

BTW, these princes of the grid iron also performed at the "highest" (as in 4/20) level ...
Jordan Grant Griffin
Sterling Johnson
Tim Lawrence
Aaron Riley
Nathan Wade
So, let's see .... in the last ten years, that's three guys in the NFL* and five guys arrested on conspiracy to distribute narcotics charges.

Also, on our depth chart at gun-toting anti-semitic vandal, let's pencil in Dan Marwick Dodd III.

Final score: Ignominy 6, NFL* 3.

#To be continued. Calling it a day. Will bring up national ranking in basketball, multiple positive articles in national press, and NO ARRESTS tomorrow. Until then ....

[FUBeAR]

Dang...you deleted your “Moms bringing oranges” post continuing your disparagement, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, of the extremely talented student athletes that have proudly worn the <F> on their helmets.

Oh well....as Coach S. Jackson once said, “Allow me to retort” (anyway)...

All it lacks is someone's mom bringing orange wedges for everyone.

Did you say Oranges? Man, I love oranges...and Furman Student Athletes who are good enough to advance to the highest level of their Sport.

Pos Player
TE Luther Broughton 1998-2001 Philadelphia Eagles / 5th / 155th pick / 1997
LB Marq Cerqua 2001-2002
OT Dakota Dozier 2014-2019 New York Jets / 4th / 137th pick / 2014
RB Jerome Felton Detroit Lions / 5th / 146th pick / 2008
WR Chas Fox 1986-1986 Kansas City Chiefs / 4th / 90th pick / 1986
DB Ernest Gibson 1984-1989 New England Patriots / 6th / 151st pick / 1984
RB Stanford Jennings 1984-1992 Cincinnati Bengals / 3rd / 65th pick / 1984
DB John Keith 2000-2003 San Francisco 49ers / 4th / 108th pick / 2000
G Ryan Lee 2012-2012
QB Ingle Martin 2006-2006 Green Bay Packers / 5th / 148th pick / 2006
DB William Middleton 2009-2012 Atlanta Falcons / 5th / 138th pick / 2009
DB Cam Newton 2005-2006
DB Jerome Norris 1987-1987
LB Orlando Ruff 1999-2005
WR Tom Southard 1978-1978
CB Ryan Steed 2012--2012
QB David Whitehurst 1977-1983 Green Bay Packers / 8th / 206th pick / 1977
QB Sam Wyche 1968-1976

Oh, btw, a total of 1 Furman MBB alum has dressed out for an NBA game (12 games) in the past 45 years. Many, many great Hoops Paladins over those 45 years, who I have had the distinct pleasure to watch and would never even think of disparaging their talents & contributions by questioning if they were ‘real D1 players.’ They were and are...exactly like the Furman Football Players & Team, who certainly do not deserve your insults, ARE.

So we meet again, Mr. Bear. I've been expecting you. Please allow me to re-introduce myself ...

First, there are more names on that list than folks in the stands. (Too easy. Low hanging oranges, if you will.)

Secondly, the trend is definitely not your friend. You went alphabetical order. Had you instead gone reverse chronological order it would have taken me much less time to determine that there have been exactly three players in the last decade who have played "at the highest level".

Topics = Quality level of product / Players on the field of play & your continued disparagement of Furman Football Student Athletes

[Furmanoid]

It is much, much more difficult to make the NBA than it is to make the NFL.

It is also much more likely that Furman will become truly relevant (on some sort of national level that more than a handful of people care about) in basketball or other sports rather than football.

We have to shed 20 scholarships (that’s just for starters). As a fb school we are hamstrung by title IX. AD says we can’t play any sports nonscholarship because it wouldn’t be fair to the players (which makes no sense at all). FB is a “third rail”. It appears that the only option is to keep fb whole and suck at every other male sport (except b-ball where we only play half the guys we’re allowed) since they will lose half their scholarships. If not for the third rail thing we could take a chunk out of football and still compete at other sports. But if you take a chunk out we are even less likely to ever win a playoff game or really be very good at all.

If it can be done, I’d be fine with dropping FB to DII and shooting for a national championship while saving 27 scholarships and pretty much making this whole problem go away. Most people don’t know the difference between fcs and DII football anyway. I know HS kids don’t know the difference because I have to explain it to them all the time.

[FUBeAR]

It is much, much more difficult to make the NBA than it is to make the NFL.

Welcome to TheUFFP, Bud Grant. Amazing to see you posting on message boards at the age of 93. #RESPECT

[Roundball]

Evidently a big meeting is taking place today. I hope the PR does not get worse.

[Furmanoid]

You’re the one who made the comparison. Just pointing out that it made no sense.

[FUBeAR]

You’re the one who made the comparison. Just pointing out that it made no sense.

Just pointing out that Bud Grant is the only human, who has ever lived, who can legitimately make such a claim.

Are you saying you’re not Bud Grant? #Shocked

[Furmanoid]

1/2 as many college players in b ball, but NBA has only 1/4 the number of jobs of NFL (not including practice squads). Also many thousands of international players competing for the NBA. You have to be best in the world instead of best in US. This isn’t something many people would debate. Good to hear a Bud Grant reference though. My favorite coach when I was little.

[FUBeAR]

1/2 as many college players in b ball, but NBA has only 1/4 the number of jobs of NFL (not including practice squads). Also many thousands of international players competing for the NBA. You have to be best in the world instead of best in US. This isn’t something many people would debate. Good to hear a Bud Grant reference though. My favorite coach when I was little.

Oh...so you meant to say “statistically less likely“ instead of “harder.”

Is it 18x statistically less likely?

No need to do the math, we can stipulate that, despite a few potentially debatable points.

BUT, for each of those individual student athletes who have succeeded at Furman AND succeeded in making it to the highest global level of their sport, in this case, the NFL, it was no ‘easier’ for them to do that than for any college student athlete who makes it to the NBA. Exceptional Talent & an unbelievable amount of hard work are just the 1st ingredients required. And each Furman Football Player, who has attained that level of success, in the past 45 years - all 18 of them - possessed that level of talent and put in at least that amount of hard work. I just can’t fathom why anyone wants to disparage them or their other Division 1 Teammates, who, likely put in as much or nearly as much hard work, and, perhaps, just had a shade less talent.

Really bad form, IFUBeAR’sHO

[Fessor]

It is much, much more difficult to make the NBA than it is to make the NFL.

Welcome to TheUFFP, Bud Grant. Amazing to see you posting on message boards at the age of 93. #RESPECT

I respect the hell out of the Bud Grant reference. Note to self: Reminder ... Mr. Bear is a considerable adversary.

You're exactly right: I don't have to disparage FU football to make my points and relative value of one sport versus another.

[Furmanoid]

I didn’t disparage anybody.

[76MrMoto]

I have not seen the below mentioned elsewhere on this Board. Therefore, if I missed it and it was posted by someone else, I apologize for the duplication here.

Since Furman needs to reduce expenses (which I believe without doubt is true) I wonder if they cut out the $2,000 "cost of attendance" stipend given annually to each (i.e. probably only those on a “full ride”) men and women’s’ BB player? These players receive a full ride plus $2,000 more for "incidental expenses" (defined as a “Cost of Attendance” supplement which is “legal” within the NCAA).

Because several other SOCON schools give their men’s BB players a full ride plus "cost of attendance", Furman pays this annual additional $2,000 to ensure men's BB remains competitive in the SOCON. (My perception is the only reason women's BB players also receive the annual $2,000 is because of title 9).

The “BB cost of attendance” payment likely started in the last year or two that Mike B. was AD. I say this because in either 2017 or 2018, when I asked him whether or not Furman was paying “Cost of attendance in any Furman sport”, he replied vaguely saying something to the effect that “additional assistance was being provided in some cases”. Since this question was asked of Mike in a crowd of about 20-25 people, I did not press further on this issue.

In the fall of 2019, when I asked the same question of JD, also in the presence of 20-25 other people he replied honestly by stating “cost of attendance” (i.e. $2,000) was being paid in both men and women’s BB.

After the meeting, I asked another Furman athletic staff member present the question “as a Furman grad/Furman football walk on that earned a full ride, I would have been ticked off to know that the men’s BB players were receiving $2,000 yearly more than me so how does Furman address this issue”? The response was “we try to keep it as quiet as we can for that reason”.

If other posters on this Board want to challenge the authenticity of the above, call the AD and ask him the same as I did. In addition, I am not betraying any “trust” in disclosing the above, because the meeting was open to all interested and any of the other 20-25 people present could have (and likely did) discuss Furman’s COA payments with others.

My position on “Cost of Attendance” is Furman should publicly acknowledge it is being paid, to whom (i.e. in what sports) and why this is necessary for Furman to do. (Note: If Furman has already done this, I failed to see/hear it and therefore, apologize for this comment).

As I said earlier in this post, if the above has already been posted, I apologize for the duplication