The Future of Furman Football

[Flagman]

Tennessee Tech has invested millions into football. They call it the "front door to the university." They brought in 60 transfers this year. I heard they have also invested well in NIL money. What we saw yesterday was the best team money could buy. And yet, the #15 rated team in FCS played to virtually an empty stadium. Their home side looked like our visitor side during a Wofford game. Had the band not been present, the visitor side would have been sparse as well.

[Sad Din]

Tennessee Tech has invested millions into football. They call it the "front door to the university." They brought in 60 transfers this year. I heard they have also invested well in NIL money. What we saw yesterday was the best team money could buy. And yet, the #15 rated team in FCS played to virtually an empty stadium. Their home side looked like our visitor side during a Wofford game. Had the band not been present, the visitor side would have been sparse as well.

its true but was wondering of the weather had anything to do with it (or threatening weather. it was pretty nice)

[apaladin]

Something positive about this season.
We beat the Sagarin top-rated SoCon team, Mercer by 7 at Mercer.
We lost to the Sagarin 2nd highest rated SoCon team, Tennessee Tech, by only 5 at Tennessee Tech.
Today’s Sagarin is not published yet, but I will not be surprised if we stay at our previous rating in Sagarin.
Mercer and Tennessee Tech are each rated far above Furman.

We have now risen in Sagarin compared to our ranking in Sagarin last week!!!!!

Which means little to nothing. The only thing that matters is 2-5.

[Flagman]

Tennessee Tech has invested millions into football. They call it the "front door to the university." They brought in 60 transfers this year. I heard they have also invested well in NIL money. What we saw yesterday was the best team money could buy. And yet, the #15 rated team in FCS played to virtually an empty stadium. Their home side looked like our visitor side during a Wofford game. Had the band not been present, the visitor side would have been sparse as well.

its true but was wondering of the weather had anything to do with it (or threatening weather. it was pretty nice)

The weather was fine and not a factor. It started to rain with 4:51 left in the 3rd quarter. It was just a light shower. The field, though artificial turf, remined me of the old Sirrine stadium. It had a slight dome down the middle, so I assume it had good drainage. I recall only one player (ours) to slip while make a cut.

[Affirm]

Something positive about this season.
We beat the Sagarin top-rated SoCon team, Mercer by 7 at Mercer.
We lost to the Sagarin 2nd highest rated SoCon team, Tennessee Tech, by only 5 at Tennessee Tech.
Today’s Sagarin is not published yet, but I will not be surprised if we stay at our previous rating in Sagarin.
Mercer and Tennessee Tech are each rated far above Furman.

We have now risen in Sagarin compared to our ranking in Sagarin last week!!!!!

Which means little to nothing. The only thing that matters is 2-5.

It means we are better than 68 Division 1 schools, most of whom are larger in enrollment. The 68 include 2 state flagship universities, one Ivy League, 2 FBS schools, more than half of the FCS “National Liberal Arts Colleges”, the second-oldest college in the entire nation, and numerous other name schools.
It means at least one source documents that we are better than the week before.
And 2-5 means we still can go 6-6, which was my stated prediction before the season started.

[FUATT]

I will keep my season tickets and support Furman. I give them away when I can't go and I get universal feedback that going to a Furman game is a good time. That's just what I hear.

When I do get to go, I can park close, see a lot of old and some new friends, and see our team mostly play close hard fought games, although we have been the guys coming up a little short lately. After the first two, every game we have played has been a one score game. I don't like the outcomes, but I've been pretty riveted to the TV or my seats.

I do not have any inside info but If I had to guess, I'd guess at the following things: 1. Clay is staying (unless he elects to step down, but my gut says he would not have sacked Roper if he was going to do that, he's still fighting). 2. We will fire the whole offensive staff, except maybe the new OL coach Jolly. 3. We will hire a new offensive coordinator who will bring a system that has a chance to be successful with the kind of student athletes we are capable of recruiting and retaining at Furman and compete for conference championships. 4. I don't know what that system will be. We are not going back to a Triple Spread AFA type system I don't think, and we can't seem to recruit OL and RB to run Zone Spread successfully. 5. Whatever the system is, we need to reevaluate how we recruit to fit that system.

I am ok with that. We are 2800 student private school with the toughest admissions standards in our league. Our University is about to face the same brutal enrollment cliff that all else are facing and I'll be fine with holding on to football like it is.

I do think that one day, the dominos at the top relative to the SEC, the Big 10 and the rest of the Power 5 will start falling and as those leagues ultimately realign and consolidate the dominos will eventually fall down and hit us. How that will change things at Furman I don't know. But we will eventually be buffeted by change, so no need to overreact today IMO.

I still think ultimately a league of the private & Mil schools from the SoCon, the CAA and the Patriot and would make a lot of sense. If you could pull in W&M (like a private, small, high academic etc), Richmond, Campbell and Elon and Furman, Wofford, Citadel, VMI, Mercer and Samford, that's a nice 10 team league of schools with similar sets of resources and student body numbers. We could win that league in basketball most years too. And we would not have to compete with the big publics who have NIL etc. I'd like that league.

Something will happen one day. Until it is forced upon us I hope we have the good common sense not to make a long term bad decision.

[apaladin]

TTU attendance for their first 2 games was 4,800 and 3,428. Nothing listed for the FU game so no they don’t get supported much. They are not getting a good ROI.

[FUTex]

Of course you should renew your season tickets. It'd be silly not to. You're fans, not simply consumers.

Yes, 2-5 stinks. Frankly, I'd rather have rectal surgery. But here we are. We can still wins some games though.

Now, I tell you truly, I've been around some bad programs. I wrestled through some awful ETSU Buccaneer football in the 1980s and 1990s. Really bad. I've had some days at Duke football where Wallace Wade Stadium had maybe 4000 in attendance. I've seen a bad football program. Furman most definitely is not a bad program. Its a good program with possum vomit for an Offensive Line. It can be fixed, but not this year.

[purplehorse123]

… I'll be fine with holding on to football like it is.


There may not be many fans in the stands with you. This is the 3rd year in a row of not really competing for the Southern Conference Championship, much less any hope of a playoff run.

Some folks like just going to the game, getting fresh air etc. but many prefer winning. Winning is always more fun!

[Paul C]

Now, I tell you truly, I've been around some bad programs. I wrestled through some awful ETSU Buccaneer football in the 1980s and 1990s. Really bad. I've had some days at Duke football where Wallace Wade Stadium had maybe 4000 in attendance. I've seen a bad football program.

Folks, I think I discovered our problem….

[Thorny]

Random anecdotes.

All I really want is Furman football is to be competitive. Every game is close so...I'm not really inclined to complain.

I like our coach but our seemingly impotent offense and O-line predated our previous OC. I think Hendrix's portfolio as Furman's head coach is solid but I think Furman's brand during his tenure will ultimately be good to fantastic defense with good to significantly below average offense.

I don't disagree with the change at play callers but I don't know where Furman should go from here. We had a decent amount of turn over with both offensive coaches and players so it isn't surprising that there are growing pains...the question is are those pains temporary and something we can build off of.

I think one of the more interesting thing is our offensive struggles are bleeding into the color commentators. Our struggles are getting to the point that they are outside of the box as far as description goes. To paraphrase "Furman has struggled a bit this year on third down" is arguably not true.... "Furman has a staple of running backs with yada yada averaging two yards a carry." Clearly it is hard to find a bright spot on our offense...

I don't know where things go from here but I remain optimistic and could see us winning out.

[FUTex]

Now, I tell you truly, I've been around some bad programs. I wrestled through some awful ETSU Buccaneer football in the 1980s and 1990s. Really bad. I've had some days at Duke football where Wallace Wade Stadium had maybe 4000 in attendance. I've seen a bad football program.

Folks, I think I discovered our problem….

Yes. There was 40,000 seat stadium that appeared, to me, about 90% empty... for a FBS game in the ACC. It was sad.

But you get my point - Duke football was so poor in every aspect of the game they simply were not competitive. The attendance reflected that. Few fans looked forward to another blow-out loss.

But Furman IS competitive. Our meager attendance is, I bet, more a result of FCS and having a small student body than the product on the field. We have only ONE agreed-upon sore spot on our team. Just fix the O line. FUBear might have some eligibility left. Make him suit out. There. Problem solved.

You know, Clay Hendrix was an awesome Offensive Guard when he played at Furman. He was like 5'11" and 200 pounds. Make him get in the trenches during practice and show the boys how to move like they're not wearing fishing waders.

Or, just check the current OL's medication list. If any are powerful narcotic sedatives, have the team physician remove them from the approved list. Labels like "May cause drowsiness", "Do not operate heavy machinery", and "May allow a defensive lineman to zip right by you untouched" are what to look for.

[FUTex]

DPLOT

And don't continue to wallow in the defeatism. For example, don't go back and replay that last offensive play against TTU like 15 times in a row. Don't. Do not watch the LT guard an area where it would be highly improbable for the QB to be. Do not watch the DE gently canter around our LT completely unmolested and pound our QB into the ground over and over and over again. It was not healthy.

[Affirm]

Now, I tell you truly, I've been around some bad programs. I wrestled through some awful ETSU Buccaneer football in the 1980s and 1990s. Really bad. I've had some days at Duke football where Wallace Wade Stadium had maybe 4000 in attendance. I've seen a bad football program.

Folks, I think I discovered our problem….

Yes. There was 40,000 seat stadium that appeared, to me, about 90% empty... for a FBS game in the ACC. It was sad.

But you get my point - Duke football was so poor in every aspect of the game they simply were not competitive. The attendance reflected that. Few fans looked forward to another blow-out loss.

But Furman IS competitive. Our meager attendance is, I bet, more a result of FCS and having a small student body than the product on the field. We have only ONE agreed-upon sore spot on our team. Just fix the O line. FUBear might have some eligibility left. Make him suit out. There. Problem solved.

You know, Clay Hendrix was an awesome Offensive Guard when he played at Furman. He was like 5'11" and 200 pounds. Make him get in the trenches during practice and show the boys how to move like they're not wearing fishing waders.

Or, just check the current OL's medication list. If any are powerful narcotic sedatives, have the team physician remove them from the approved list. Labels like "May cause drowsiness", "Do not operate heavy machinery", and "May allow a defensive lineman to zip right by you untouched" are what to look for.

Duke Football having 4,000 in attendance at their historic stadium, and my understanding of some of the factors in how they brought their program up (back up, back to life).
About 2008, Duke decided to improve.
They double their football budget.
They hired David Cutcliffe with the requirement that he transform the program.
From about 2008 until about 2016, they steadily and deliberately improved the program, including a massive renovation to their historic stadium.
A very important factor in the beginning and the continuation of all this improvement was and still is tremendous financial support from their former football players. Former players greatly bought in to, even began and continued the improvements - many millions of dollars in donations from former players.
I know that some former Furman Football players are supportive financially to a certain extent, but I imagine that there are MANY former Furman Football players that are not supportive and definitely none that are as supportive as certain former Duke players began to be back around 2008. If I am wrong, I would like to know that with some illustrative evidence, maybe some names, maybe some illustrative numbers.
Furman has, over the years, roughly the same total number of former football players as Duke did and does. At least 65% to 75% as many.
And obviously it would take far less additional money to bring Furman Football up, back up, than it did to bring Duke Football up, back up.
Furman could probably do it with only 10% of the additional money that has been dumped into Duke Football over the last 18-19 years.
I’m sorry to call out the former Furman Football players, but what I said is sincerely my observation.
And I know there are other factors at play in any comparison of us and Duke.
I realize that it would probably be more accurate and more appropriate for us to compare with Davidson Football and that school’s athletics overall than with Duke.

[Bootie]

In this new era, what prohibits schools from signing players to contracts with buyout clauses for transferring? Why isn't that a thing that schools are doing? I'm sick of players running the system.