Questions about "the glory years" vs. now

[fufanatic]

I want to broach this subject delicately, because I know how passionate everyone is about the glory years under Joe Williams, but since I wasn't born yet, I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on a few things. I raise this question after someone posted in another thread something to the effect of realizing that we will never get back to that level again.

- When we made the tourney in 71, 73 & 74, there were 25 teams in the field. How were these teams selected? By auto-bid for conferences or just the 25 best teams in the country?

- In 75 and 78, there were 32 teams in the field. How were they selected?

- In 80, there were 48 teams. How were they selected?

My point being, if the glory days Furman teams were picked based on being one of the best 25, 32 or 48 teams in the country, then yes, that will be hard to obtain in the current world of college basketball (although not impossible with sustained success and growth)? But if those glory years teams made the tourney based purely on winning the SoCon, then yes, I think we can easily get back to that level. And we can certainly go 1-6 in the tourney, which isn't that impressive, although to be fair, 3 of the losses were by 3 points or less and a 4th was by 6 points. And I think we can have NBA prospects, host big schools in Greenville, get national attention. All those are possible. So just what about the glory years teams is unattainable with this current iteration of the Paladins, which is building quite a program that's gaining respect nationally? Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

[tim]

I think most of those early selections were by autobid. There were numerous highly ranked ACC teams that were left out because they didn't win the tourney and were NIT bound. I'll never forget one year Lefty Driesell had Maryland ranked 3rd in the nation( I think) and lost in the ACC finals and refused an NIT bid rather than be ranked that high and be an NIT team. Yeah Furman was among a select few in those years and got good publicity. At large bids came after the tourney expanded. Furman went each and every time by autobid for winning the SOCON tournament.

[Affirm]

I want to broach this subject delicately, because I know how passionate everyone is about the glory years under Joe Williams, but since I wasn't born yet, I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on a few things. I raise this question after someone posted in another thread something to the effect of realizing that we will never get back to that level again.

- When we made the tourney in 71, 73 & 74, there were 25 teams in the field. How were these teams selected? By auto-bid for conferences or just the 25 best teams in the country?

- In 75 and 78, there were 32 teams in the field. How were they selected?

- In 80, there were 48 teams. How were they selected?

My point being, if the glory days Furman teams were picked based on being one of the best 25, 32 or 48 teams in the country, then yes, that will be hard to obtain in the current world of college basketball (although not impossible with sustained success and growth)? But if those glory years teams made the tourney based purely on winning the SoCon, then yes, I think we can easily get back to that level. And we can certainly go 1-6 in the tourney, which isn't that impressive, although to be fair, 3 of the losses were by 3 points or less and a 4th was by 6 points. And I think we can have NBA prospects, host big schools in Greenville, get national attention. All those are possible. So just what about the glory years teams is unattainable with this current iteration of the Paladins, which is building quite a program that's gaining respect nationally? Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

I think ALL of them were due to winning the conference tournament.
The conference teams in those years were slightly more prestigious than now, in my opinion. No disrespect nor “snobby ness” intended, but we did not have to have to play teams like Wofford & Mercer & Samford, at least not as our main competitors. Richmond, Davidson, W&M, etc., seemed like slightly higher profile teams. We were competitive against such teams. We either were still playing against the likes of WVU & George Washington, or else not many years past having those in the conference.
In the glory years, we were able to have both Clemson & USC come to play us. We had things like the North-South Doubleheader and the Poinsettia Classic. We were able to get games away, if not at home, against big schools other than SC & CU, at least as much as now.
The irony is that in the glory days we did not realize it was not going to always be that way. We did not realize they were glory days!!!!
What if now are glory days compared to what will be 5, 10, 20, 40 years from now.
What if 5, 10, 20, 40 years from now we are DIII or DII or still D1 but back to being highly mediocre like we’ve been for too many of the last 40 years?

[Furmanoid]

Well sonny, you make a good point. Those bids were based on winning the SoCon. Without that automatic they would not have got in some of those years. But they would probably have gotten in a couple of times anyway. They didn’t just win the conference-they dominated it. And keep in mind that about half of the modern SoCon was NAIA then. As schools have left we’ve filled in with whatever we can get. But even back then SoCon play was sort of a joke compared to the rest of the schedule: 4 acc games, 1 or 2 big10, 1 or 2 SEC, recent NCAA runner up Jacksonville, maybe a few future big East. I remember watching us play Florida and being bummed that we were scheduling patsies. So winning 20 plus games really meant something. There was not much finesse involved either. They dominated inside. So you wouldn’t have an off shooting night and lose to Samford (which didn’t even exist). You’d just rebound and score anyway. We had an identity as that big team that would dominate you. Now we’re that pretty good team that will beat you if we are shooting good and you don’t play your best.

[MNORM]

I want to broach this subject delicately, because I know how passionate everyone is about the glory years under Joe Williams, but since I wasn't born yet, I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on a few things. I raise this question after someone posted in another thread something to the effect of realizing that we will never get back to that level again.

- When we made the tourney in 71, 73 & 74, there were 25 teams in the field. How were these teams selected? By auto-bid for conferences or just the 25 best teams in the country?

- In 75 and 78, there were 32 teams in the field. How were they selected?

- In 80, there were 48 teams. How were they selected?

My point being, if the glory days Furman teams were picked based on being one of the best 25, 32 or 48 teams in the country, then yes, that will be hard to obtain in the current world of college basketball (although not impossible with sustained success and growth)? But if those glory years teams made the tourney based purely on winning the SoCon, then yes, I think we can easily get back to that level. And we can certainly go 1-6 in the tourney, which isn't that impressive, although to be fair, 3 of the losses were by 3 points or less and a 4th was by 6 points. And I think we can have NBA prospects, host big schools in Greenville, get national attention. All those are possible. So just what about the glory years teams is unattainable with this current iteration of the Paladins, which is building quite a program that's gaining respect nationally? Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

I think ALL of them were due to winning the conference tournament.
The conference teams in those years were slightly more prestigious than now, in my opinion. No disrespect nor “snobby ness” intended, but we did not have to have to play teams like Wofford & Mercer & Samford, at least not as our main competitors. Richmond, Davidson, W&M, etc., seemed like slightly higher profile teams. We were competitive against such teams. We either were still playing against the likes of WVU & George Washington, or else not many years past having those in the conference.
In the glory years, we were able to have both Clemson & USC come to play us. We had things like the North-South Doubleheader and the Poinsettia Classic. We were able to get games away, if not at home, against big schools other than SC & CU, at least as much as now.
The irony is that in the glory days we did not realize it was not going to always be that way. We did not realize they were glory days!!!!
What if now are glory days compared to what will be 5, 10, 20, 40 years from now.
What if 5, 10, 20, 40 years from now we are DIII or DII or still D1 but back to being highly mediocre like we’ve been for too many of the last 40 years?

Seriously? Can you imagine being a player or a coach and reading this? I can't anymore...these comments are so damn depressing and lacking in the slightest modicum of reality.

...see everyone tomorrow night at 6:45. Go Dins.

[Roundball]

I'll take what is happening today with our basketball program over the "glory days". We have a much better head coach, one that does it the right way. I am proud of where we are and what we are accomplishing. I was around for those years, but for me, these are the glory days. I will enjoy the moment. Go Paladins.

[Affirm]

I'll take what is happening today with our basketballl program over the "glory days". We have a much better head coach, one that does it the right way. I am proud of where we are and what we are accomplishing. I was around for those years, but for me, these are the glory days. I will enjoy the moment. Go Paladins.

May today’s glory days continue!
May we keep our good coach for many, many, many years!
May we appear again in the NCAA Tournament again, multiple times, in my lifetime!

[apaladin]

I want to broach this subject delicately, because I know how passionate everyone is about the glory years under Joe Williams, but since I wasn't born yet, I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on a few things. I raise this question after someone posted in another thread something to the effect of realizing that we will never get back to that level again.

- When we made the tourney in 71, 73 & 74, there were 25 teams in the field. How were these teams selected? By auto-bid for conferences or just the 25 best teams in the country?

- In 75 and 78, there were 32 teams in the field. How were they selected?

- In 80, there were 48 teams. How were they selected?

My point being, if the glory days Furman teams were picked based on being one of the best 25, 32 or 48 teams in the country, then yes, that will be hard to obtain in the current world of college basketball (although not impossible with sustained success and growth)? But if those glory years teams made the tourney based purely on winning the SoCon, then yes, I think we can easily get back to that level. And we can certainly go 1-6 in the tourney, which isn't that impressive, although to be fair, 3 of the losses were by 3 points or less and a 4th was by 6 points. And I think we can have NBA prospects, host big schools in Greenville, get national attention. All those are possible. So just what about the glory years teams is unattainable with this current iteration of the Paladins, which is building quite a program that's gaining respect nationally? Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

I think ALL of them were due to winning the conference tournament.
The conference teams in those years were slightly more prestigious than now, in my opinion. No disrespect nor “snobby ness” intended, but we did not have to have to play teams like Wofford & Mercer & Samford, at least not as our main competitors. Richmond, Davidson, W&M, etc., seemed like slightly higher profile teams. We were competitive against such teams. We either were still playing against the likes of WVU & George Washington, or else not many years past having those in the conference.
In the glory years, we were able to have both Clemson & USC come to play us. We had things like the North-South Doubleheader and the Poinsettia Classic. We were able to get games away, if not at home, against big schools other than SC & CU, at least as much as now.
The irony is that in the glory days we did not realize it was not going to always be that way. We did not realize they were glory days!!!!
What if now are glory days compared to what will be 5, 10, 20, 40 years from now.
What if 5, 10, 20, 40 years from now we are DIII or DII or still D1 but back to being highly mediocre like we’ve been for too many of the last 40 years?

Seriously? Can you imagine being a player or a coach and reading this? I can't anymore...these comments are so damn depressing and lacking in the slightest modicum of reality.

...see everyone tomorrow night at 6:45. Go Dins.

Agree, these d2, d3 comments are really getting old.

[Furmanoid]

Wait a minute. Williams went to the NCAA FINAL, but the current coach is much better? And losing the SoCon every year is preferable to winning the SoCon every year?

[apaladin]

Remember in the “glory” days there were app. 200 less teams and who knows how many fewer conferences. The last time FU went to the tournament games were not even televised unless a local station picked them up. It was nothing at all like the media circus it is today. Even though I remember FU in the tourney it’s really like they have never been because it is so different these days.

[apaladin]

Wait a minute. Williams went to the NCAA FINAL, but the current coach is much better? And losing the SoCon every year is preferable to winning the SoCon every year?

Don’t be messing things up with facts, lol.

[Affirm]

It would be much better for people to say what they mean.

[Affirm]

Wait a minute. Williams went to the NCAA FINAL, but the current coach is much better? And losing the SoCon every year is preferable to winning the SoCon every year?

Don’t be messing things up with facts, lol.

What do you mean?

[Affirm]

Wait a minute. Williams went to the NCAA FINAL, but the current coach is much better? And losing the SoCon every year is preferable to winning the SoCon every year?

What do you mean?

[Affirm]

I want to broach this subject delicately, because I know how passionate everyone is about the glory years under Joe Williams, but since I wasn't born yet, I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on a few things. I raise this question after someone posted in another thread something to the effect of realizing that we will never get back to that level again.

- When we made the tourney in 71, 73 & 74, there were 25 teams in the field. How were these teams selected? By auto-bid for conferences or just the 25 best teams in the country?

- In 75 and 78, there were 32 teams in the field. How were they selected?

- In 80, there were 48 teams. How were they selected?

My point being, if the glory days Furman teams were picked based on being one of the best 25, 32 or 48 teams in the country, then yes, that will be hard to obtain in the current world of college basketball (although not impossible with sustained success and growth)? But if those glory years teams made the tourney based purely on winning the SoCon, then yes, I think we can easily get back to that level. And we can certainly go 1-6 in the tourney, which isn't that impressive, although to be fair, 3 of the losses were by 3 points or less and a 4th was by 6 points. And I think we can have NBA prospects, host big schools in Greenville, get national attention. All those are possible. So just what about the glory years teams is unattainable with this current iteration of the Paladins, which is building quite a program that's gaining respect nationally? Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

I think ALL of them were due to winning the conference tournament.
The conference teams in those years were slightly more prestigious than now, in my opinion. No disrespect nor “snobby ness” intended, but we did not have to have to play teams like Wofford & Mercer & Samford, at least not as our main competitors. Richmond, Davidson, W&M, etc., seemed like slightly higher profile teams. We were competitive against such teams. We either were still playing against the likes of WVU & George Washington, or else not many years past having those in the conference.
In the glory years, we were able to have both Clemson & USC come to play us. We had things like the North-South Doubleheader and the Poinsettia Classic. We were able to get games away, if not at home, against big schools other than SC & CU, at least as much as now.
The irony is that in the glory days we did not realize it was not going to always be that way. We did not realize they were glory days!!!!
What if now are glory days compared to what will be 5, 10, 20, 40 years from now.
What if 5, 10, 20, 40 years from now we are DIII or DII or still D1 but back to being highly mediocre like we’ve been for too many of the last 40 years?

Seriously? Can you imagine being a player or a coach and reading this? I can't anymore...these comments are so damn depressing and lacking in the slightest modicum of reality.

...see everyone tomorrow night at 6:45. Go Dins.

Agree, these d2, d3 comments are really getting old.

What ARE you trying to say?