FU VS W&M GAME THREAD

[FUTex]

Has to be the worst coached game I have seen in the CCH era. They need ti get much better.

What are your issues with coaching?

I realize you are going to complain about anything. You can't complain about the pass defense today, so what did the coaches do that bothered you so badly?

Did you watch the game? Terrible subbing all night. To start after going up 14-0, 40 and 0 go to the bench and they go right down and score. I realize 0 and 40 can’t play every down, but they are on the bench too much. All of their points and most of the yardage came with those 2 on the bench including the last td. Chappell not in the game on third down late with game on the line, Trying a fg late on 4th and one at their 4. Not playing to win. Kicking a fg with 6 to go knowing there is a good chance they would not get the ball back. Getting great field position with 10 to go and try the bomb which is intercepted. Bad, really bad. 2nd and 10, we just waist a down and run for 2 yds. Calling 3 and outs on 3rd down when you need 8. Bad play calling all night. Coaches had a bad night, hopefully they will get better.

What does "Calling 3 and outs on 3rd down when you need 8" mean?

I thought the Paladins did fairly well. Sure, there were some minor errors here and there, but overall they did well.

[The Jackal]

if we could just stop the run...amazing

I WAS positive. Then I heard - just got on radio - they had 384 yards rushing and we had EIGHTY EIGHTY. Wow. When is the last time a team had THREE HUNDRED MORE rushing yards than us??

And I think Harris may be out more weeks

My view of our rushing game is that Hicks and Robinson are better suited to a power scheme. They, like Abrams, Roberto, Wynn, etc., were not really recruited for this zone scheme in Roper's offense. They do better getting north south.

Later in the game, and on the touchdown runs, we started to run them between the tackles. They started to have more success.

I'm not sure we expected Furman to struggle running the ball. Passing game is fine. Protection is fine. We've just gotta start getting some yards on the ground.

As someone who has no idea what they are talking about:

I always loved the big bruiser running backs. My love of football developed watching Felton and I am never a fan of getting away from that style of football.

Secondly, I don't know how this offense is supposed to work but I imagine most competent running backs can get reliable yardage regardless of the offense. They might be better suited for one offense or another but I still expect yardage. Our rushing yardage was mediocre at best which makes me suspect that it's either the offensive line (were they recruited for this style of offense?) or players are having trouble executing the plays called. Given the number of penalties I don't think any of us would be surprised if that sloppiness continued into execution.

I think both Furman and W&M have a lot to be unhappy about how this game went. I'm not surprised given our youth that their are slip ups in the passing game, both offensively and defensively. I am surprised that offensively we can't seem to have a competent running game. Given our players, coaches, experience, etc. an average rushing attack *should* be doable.

It's hard to pinpoint the issue just watching the games. And while I have no idea what the actual issue is, this is sort of a working theory of mine:

Justin Roper's hire was announced in January 2022. At that time, Furman had already signed one running back commit - Jayquan Smith (who, of course, isn't playing this year). That 2022 roster already had a bunch of running backs (Thomas, Abrams, Hicks, Robinson, Roberto, etc.)

Pre-Roper, our running back targets seemed to fit the prototype mold to run multi-back system under George Quarles. Most recruits were 6'0 and 190+.

During that time, we heavily featured two backs in the game. Most of the RB targets in those days were all big physical runners. We were more of a downhill team, frequently with a lead blocking back.

We did not take a running back in the 2023 class. I am assuming that was because we already had a bunch or guys at that position (Abrams, Roberto, Smith, Hick, Robinson, etc.)

Roper is a pure spread guy. He played at Oregon. A staple of the Oregon offense is the outside zone read run play. That style of offense prefers shorter, shiftier backs that can scoot through holes and cut up field.

Currently, you see Furman really spreading teams out. We are frequently using four or five receivers on the field at times. That was unthinkable to imagine for former Furman teams. I almost never see us use two backs at the same time. In fact, when we need a fullback, we use a defensive lineman.

Furman appears to be targeting those smaller, shiftier backs. Gavin Hall, at 5'10 188, is a shorter quicker player. Next year's commit, CJ Nettles, is similar - listed at 5'8 160. These guys are more akin to what we saw from William & Mary tonight and less what we've traditionally seen from Furman.

I'm just wondering if the problem isn't some that we are trying to run a bunch of east/west with personnel better suited to run north/south.

[gofurman]

if we could just stop the run...amazing

I WAS positive. Then I heard - just got on radio - they had 384 yards rushing and we had EIGHTY EIGHTY. Wow. When is the last time a team had THREE HUNDRED MORE rushing yards than us??

And I think Harris may be out more weeks

My view of our rushing game is that Hicks and Robinson are better suited to a power scheme. They, like Abrams, Roberto, Wynn, etc., were not really recruited for this zone scheme in Roper's offense. They do better getting north south.

Later in the game, and on the touchdown runs, we started to run them between the tackles. They started to have more success.

I'm not sure we expected Furman to struggle running the ball. Passing game is fine. Protection is fine. We've just gotta start getting some yards on the ground.

As someone who has no idea what they are talking about:

I always loved the big bruiser running backs. My love of football developed watching Felton and I am never a fan of getting away from that style of football.

Secondly, I don't know how this offense is supposed to work but I imagine most competent running backs can get reliable yardage regardless of the offense. They might be better suited for one offense or another but I still expect yardage. Our rushing yardage was mediocre at best which makes me suspect that it's either the offensive line (were they recruited for this style of offense?) or players are having trouble executing the plays called. Given the number of penalties I don't think any of us would be surprised if that sloppiness continued into execution.

I think both Furman and W&M have a lot to be unhappy about how this game went. I'm not surprised given our youth that their are slip ups in the passing game, both offensively and defensively. I am surprised that offensively we can't seem to have a competent running game. Given our players, coaches, experience, etc. an average rushing attack *should* be doable.

It's hard to pinpoint the issue just watching the games. And while I have no idea what the actual issue is, this is sort of a working theory of mine:

Justin Roper's hire was announced in January 2022. At that time, Furman had already signed one running back commit - Jayquan Smith (who, of course, isn't playing this year). That 2022 roster already had a bunch of running backs (Thomas, Abrams, Hicks, Robinson, Roberto, etc.)

Pre-Roper, our running back targets seemed to fit the prototype mold to run multi-back system under George Quarles. Most recruits were 6'0 and 190+.

During that time, we heavily featured two backs in the game. Most of the RB targets in those days were all big physical runners. We were more of a downhill team, frequently with a lead blocking back.

We did not take a running back in the 2023 class. I am assuming that was because we already had a bunch or guys at that position (Abrams, Roberto, Smith, Hick, Robinson, etc.)

Roper is a pure spread guy. He played at Oregon. A staple of the Oregon offense is the outside zone read run play. That style of offense prefers shorter, shiftier backs that can scoot through holes and cut up field.

Currently, you see Furman really spreading teams out. We are frequently using four or five receivers on the field at times. That was unthinkable to imagine for former Furman teams. I almost never see us use two backs at the same time. In fact, when we need a fullback, we use a defensive lineman.

Furman appears to be targeting those smaller, shiftier backs. Gavin Hall, at 5'10 188, is a shorter quicker player. Next year's commit, CJ Nettles, is similar - listed at 5'8 160. These guys are more akin to what we saw from William & Mary tonight and less what we've traditionally seen from Furman.

I'm just wondering if the problem isn't some that we are trying to run a bunch of east/west with personnel better suited to run north/south.

Jackal, I like your theory. I’m beginning to move towards it the more I see and think about it.

HOWEVER, as we - I think you have said likewise. know - a good coach adapts his plays TO HIS PLAYERS. he doesn’t try to adapt his players to plays they just can’t run/fit.

It’s an age old debate. You don’t make option guys run an air raid just bc a new coach came in. . You start recruiting for your new offense …. but let the option guys finish out the year running option plays. I oversimplify but we get the point.

If these guys just can’t get running yards on these plays either switch plays or put Gavin Hall in more. Just don’t be insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result

[AllTimeFU]

I completely agree. The other puzzle piece is Gavin was running behind a mixture of the OL1 and OL2. More of the same is insanity.

[gofurman]

I completely agree. The other puzzle piece is Gavin was running behind a mixture of the OL1 and OL2. More of the same is insanity.

Thanks AllTimeFU ! Yeah, I’m trying to be positive. I know it’s gonna be bumpy. I get it. Gonna be some frustrations.

Hey pass D apparently was STRONG. GREAT !

I know of the penalties. . But I have faith those will get cleared up. We are consistently a low penalty team
Bad night in FGs. Sure they will work those 30 yard FGs HARD. I would rather have a lock down 33 yard guy than an iffy medium range guy who can hit the long one. I’m SURE they will be kicking a bunch of 30-40 yard FGs this week.

But don’t do the same thing for same result. It’s the rushing I’m still concerned with.

I literally don’t know when some OUTGAINED us by 300 yards rushing. 384 to 80 or so. Can anyone name the last team to OUTGAIN us by 300 yards rushing ? . I can’t. Not Clemson recently. Not USC. that’s just hard to get my head around. Anyone ?

Anyway, right now I would take a good 3+ yard average per rush for 150 yards. Just enough to keep opponents honest.
If we get to game 7 or so and still can’t get 150 yards rushing we probably need to change schemes