Talked to a few of the coaches after this past Saturday’s scrimmage. They mentioned the offense had some explosive plays against number one defense. I think we should expect that this season with the spread of talent in both receiving and running back corps. They were defensive coaches and said they feel good about our defense, but took their hats off to the degree of talent and a whole year of the offense getting better with executing Coach Roper’s schemes. Should be fun to watch.
Explosive plays
Sorry…thought this may have been a corollary to the “Most Improved Position?” thread
NCAA MANUAL
20.10.1 ...intercollegiate athletics...competition in amateur athletics…
20.10.1.2 …maintaining a line of demarcation between student-athletes who participate in the Collegiate Model and athletes competing in the professional model
20.10.1 ...intercollegiate athletics...competition in amateur athletics…
20.10.1.2 …maintaining a line of demarcation between student-athletes who participate in the Collegiate Model and athletes competing in the professional model
1. Furman's defense was arguably the best in the conference last season and returns 10 of 11 starters. So, it's not an easy unit to move the ball on.
2. I think we forget sometimes that last year we had a new OC and a QB that didn't practice in the spring. I'm not sure how many players we return off the 2 deep offensively, but I assume it'll be close to 90% of the depth chart. They now all have a year+ in the system and Coach Roper has a year experience facing the SoCon's defenses.
3. I know Heirs at Samford gets all the press, but Tyler Huff is the more dangerous QB, in my opinion. The last half of the season last year he looked in complete control out there. He's got the arm talent, speed, leadership, awareness, and he runs like he wants to hurt you. I'm not sure how you defend him, honestly.
4. We have as much talent at wide receiver as we potentially have ever had.
5. The kicker offensively is that we have enough depth and talent to utilize a lot of different personnel groups all of which are going to have big play guys on the field. Not only that, we can substitute and maintain that sort of pressure for four quarters without losing a ton of production.
So, even if the #1 guy is not on the field, the #2 and #3 guys are just as dangerous. That puts a lot of pressure on a defense to constantly try and match up with Furman's personnel grouping and have enough defensive depth to do that for four quarters.
2. I think we forget sometimes that last year we had a new OC and a QB that didn't practice in the spring. I'm not sure how many players we return off the 2 deep offensively, but I assume it'll be close to 90% of the depth chart. They now all have a year+ in the system and Coach Roper has a year experience facing the SoCon's defenses.
3. I know Heirs at Samford gets all the press, but Tyler Huff is the more dangerous QB, in my opinion. The last half of the season last year he looked in complete control out there. He's got the arm talent, speed, leadership, awareness, and he runs like he wants to hurt you. I'm not sure how you defend him, honestly.
4. We have as much talent at wide receiver as we potentially have ever had.
5. The kicker offensively is that we have enough depth and talent to utilize a lot of different personnel groups all of which are going to have big play guys on the field. Not only that, we can substitute and maintain that sort of pressure for four quarters without losing a ton of production.
So, even if the #1 guy is not on the field, the #2 and #3 guys are just as dangerous. That puts a lot of pressure on a defense to constantly try and match up with Furman's personnel grouping and have enough defensive depth to do that for four quarters.
AstroDin liked this
To play devils advocate here. I think West and Bratton was the best WR duo we have ever had. Hands down. Now if you want to talk depth of best 5 WRs ok maybe. But I’ll take 2 superstars and 3 ok guys over 5 really good guys anyday. Anyday. Most agree 2004 w was the most talented team.The Jackal wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 12:54 pm1. Furman's defense was arguably the best in the conference last season and returns 10 of 11 starters. So, it's not an easy unit to move the ball on.
2. I think we forget sometimes that last year we had a new OC and a QB that didn't practice in the spring. I'm not sure how many players we return off the 2 deep offensively, but I assume it'll be close to 90% of the depth chart. They now all have a year+ in the system and Coach Roper has a year experience facing the SoCon's defenses.
3. I know Heirs at Samford gets all the press, but Tyler Huff is the more dangerous QB, in my opinion. The last half of the season last year he looked in complete control out there. He's got the arm talent, speed, leadership, awareness, and he runs like he wants to hurt you. I'm not sure how you defend him, honestly.
4. We have as much talent at wide receiver as we potentially have ever had.
5. The kicker offensively is that we have enough depth and talent to utilize a lot of different personnel groups all of which are going to have big play guys on the field. Not only that, we can substitute and maintain that sort of pressure for four quarters without losing a ton of production.
So, even if the #1 guy is not on the field, the #2 and #3 guys are just as dangerous. That puts a lot of pressure on a defense to constantly try and match up with Furman's personnel grouping and have enough defensive depth to do that for four quarters.
I’ve seen a few posts that this is the best team ever? No. 85. 88. 89? 2004. 2005. NFL QB. NFL Fullback. Crazy WRs. LBs and awesome OL and man it went on and on
I hope we do great. I’d fly to Frisco for sure. But I’d argue those 04/05 teams were more talented. Just Martin alone almost assured it. Then Felton etc. And that proves how hard it is to win. We had multiple NFL guys and never saw the title game.
But TTU is all that matters. Don’t read press. Play every down as if you’re life depends on it!
In terms of wide receiver, those aren’t my observations necessarily. Clay Hendrix indicated the same:
"In all my years here (2023 marks Hendrix's 30th season at Furman), this is collectively one of the best groups we've had. Schematically we're playing with more guys, which is a good thing."
https://furmanpaladins.com/news/2023/8/ ... ivers.aspx
I think we can maybe all agree that Clay Hendrix probably has more institutional knowledge of this program than anyone else, and he believes this WR group is one of the most talented in the last 30 years.
I noted this elsewhere, but Huff put up a season in 2022 that rivaled the best offensive seasons by a Furman QB all time, maybe with the single exception of Ingle Martin. He did that in the first season in the program with a new offensive coordinator.
One of the reasons West/Bratton were so productive was because of Martin. That’s not a criticism, of course, as any wide receiver does better with quality at the QB position.
Furman’s offense put up almost identical numbers in 2005 with Martin and a different corps of receivers.
"In all my years here (2023 marks Hendrix's 30th season at Furman), this is collectively one of the best groups we've had. Schematically we're playing with more guys, which is a good thing."
https://furmanpaladins.com/news/2023/8/ ... ivers.aspx
I think we can maybe all agree that Clay Hendrix probably has more institutional knowledge of this program than anyone else, and he believes this WR group is one of the most talented in the last 30 years.
I noted this elsewhere, but Huff put up a season in 2022 that rivaled the best offensive seasons by a Furman QB all time, maybe with the single exception of Ingle Martin. He did that in the first season in the program with a new offensive coordinator.
One of the reasons West/Bratton were so productive was because of Martin. That’s not a criticism, of course, as any wide receiver does better with quality at the QB position.
Furman’s offense put up almost identical numbers in 2005 with Martin and a different corps of receivers.
AstroDin liked this
Not to be forgotten, Bear Reinhart was on the same team as West and Bratton in 2002. Pretty stout group.
Our current group as a whole probably has the most potential since those 3. We've had some really good players since then but have probably lacked the depth/potential of this group.
I don't know if this is the best group of WRs we've had since CCH has been part of Furman, but I think this group, along with Huff, Roberto, Pline, and the O-line, has the potential to beat anyone on our schedule and that's good enough for me.
Our current group as a whole probably has the most potential since those 3. We've had some really good players since then but have probably lacked the depth/potential of this group.
I don't know if this is the best group of WRs we've had since CCH has been part of Furman, but I think this group, along with Huff, Roberto, Pline, and the O-line, has the potential to beat anyone on our schedule and that's good enough for me.
Of course, we must wait and see how all this depth and talent translates to the field.
That said—this team has a combination of depth and athletic ability that, on paper, is unrivaled.
We could see at the end of the year that Furman's starting D line all be All-SoCon that's crazy.
Back to this receiving group, the combination of size and skill is in IMO a big jump from that wonderful 85 team.
Ike West 6-0 197
J Harris 6-2 190
E Harris 6-2 188
Dean 6-1 186
Shiflett 6-2 192
Holbrook 6-4 200
Hamilton 6-3 190
you also have
Brian Bratton 5-10 185
Anderson 5-10 200
Ferguson 5-11 205
Hinton 5-11 175
I won't even get into the TE group of monsters
That said—this team has a combination of depth and athletic ability that, on paper, is unrivaled.
We could see at the end of the year that Furman's starting D line all be All-SoCon that's crazy.
Back to this receiving group, the combination of size and skill is in IMO a big jump from that wonderful 85 team.
Ike West 6-0 197
J Harris 6-2 190
E Harris 6-2 188
Dean 6-1 186
Shiflett 6-2 192
Holbrook 6-4 200
Hamilton 6-3 190
you also have
Brian Bratton 5-10 185
Anderson 5-10 200
Ferguson 5-11 205
Hinton 5-11 175
I won't even get into the TE group of monsters
Astro, you have a point.AstroDin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 4:25 pmOf course, we must wait and see how all this depth and talent translates to the field.
That said—this team has a combination of depth and athletic ability that, on paper, is unrivaled.
We could see at the end of the year that Furman's starting D line all be All-SoCon that's crazy.
Back to this receiving group, the combination of size and skill is in IMO a big jump from that wonderful 85 team.
Ike West 6-0 197
J Harris 6-2 190
E Harris 6-2 188
Dean 6-1 186
Shiflett 6-2 192
Holbrook 6-4 200
Hamilton 6-3 190
you also have
Brian Bratton 5-10 185
Anderson 5-10 200
Ferguson 5-11 205
Hinton 5-11 175
I won't even get into the TE group of monsters
However, I personally believe SPEED is much more important than height. PaulC noted the best recvr one year was the little crazy fast dude at Samford. He was rather on the short side.. and most teams couldn't handle him. He was just TOO FAST. I'm too old to think of his name.
Devin Hester was 5'11". I'm pretty sure he would be our best receiver or whatever
Steve Smith (NFL Great WR) was only 5'9". And I believe in height. But speed will win out in many instances. Our own Ryan Miller was a freaky fast guy and that saved us versus Samford on that play where he ran for a late 4th Q TD. It had nothing to do with his height. It was his ability to outrun the Samford D ! "Hamp Sisson rolled right and threw it back across the field to Miller who split the defense with a burst up the left hash marks, going 73 yards for the score. Miller finished with three catches for 96 yards and two TDs for the Paladins (2-1, 2-1 Southern Conference), ranked No. 17 in the FCS Top 25."
At 5'6" Darren Sproles accumulated more yards receiving as a RB than any other RB in the NFL - and more TDs than any other RB in the NFL - in the 2005-2008 era. 5'6" and arguably was the best pass catching RB in the NFL ! Why? FREAKY SPEEd
Valid point. Can't forget the Bear.. My main point is I think this is a "current group as a WHOLE" versus 2/3 super studs. Just my take but I'll take the 2/3 studs (West/Bratton/ Bear was good) over what I see as 1 stud (Harris) and a pretty good group (so far)...FUwolfpacker wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:46 pmNot to be forgotten, Bear Reinhart was on the same team as West and Bratton in 2002. Pretty stout group.
Our current group as a whole probably has the most potential since those 3. We've had some really good players since then but have probably lacked the depth/potential of this group.
I don't know if this is the best group of WRs we've had since CCH has been part of Furman, but I think this group, along with Huff, Roberto, Pline, and the O-line, has the potential to beat anyone on our schedule and that's good enough for me.
Please know, I do hope I am shown that this group is the best to ever play !
I think we're getting off track from the title of this thread…
Explosive Plays
Clay and the rest of the staff have talked about explosive plays since the beginning of this Coaching reign. Furman has worked hard to recruit and develop more playmakers.
I guess it takes many things to be an excellent receiver; route running, hands, speed, toughness to play nicked up, and at Furman > blocking. Height doesn't make an excellent receiver alone.
That said, a 6-2 Joshua Harris isn't common at the FCS level. I'll take that bet that by the time Harris graduates, he will have a place in the Furman record books.
I should have said this in my earlier post when Furman lost to APSU in the playoffs. It was obvious our receivers had issues separating from GOV's defenders and Wofford's. I didn't feel that was an issue for the Furman offense last season.
Furman wants to play physical football on both sides of the ball. I think what we can agree on for now is this group of receivers and tight ends is a step toward that goal. The coaches know what they've got more than us fans.
I'm excited to see what Tyler Huff can do with this group of weapons.
Explosive Plays
Clay and the rest of the staff have talked about explosive plays since the beginning of this Coaching reign. Furman has worked hard to recruit and develop more playmakers.
I guess it takes many things to be an excellent receiver; route running, hands, speed, toughness to play nicked up, and at Furman > blocking. Height doesn't make an excellent receiver alone.
That said, a 6-2 Joshua Harris isn't common at the FCS level. I'll take that bet that by the time Harris graduates, he will have a place in the Furman record books.
I should have said this in my earlier post when Furman lost to APSU in the playoffs. It was obvious our receivers had issues separating from GOV's defenders and Wofford's. I didn't feel that was an issue for the Furman offense last season.
Furman wants to play physical football on both sides of the ball. I think what we can agree on for now is this group of receivers and tight ends is a step toward that goal. The coaches know what they've got more than us fans.
I'm excited to see what Tyler Huff can do with this group of weapons.
gman84 liked this
I'm anxious to see the continued expansion of the playbook for Huff/Roper in year two.
By the latter half of the season, Furman was hitting on a lot of big chunk plays. A lot of those were RPO-type throws to Harris on routes across the middle. They are nearly impossible to defend.
An example from last year's game against UTC (admittedly, I have no idea what Furman actually calls here, this is just how I see it):
- Furman has trips to the wide side. UTC counters with 4 defenders over the 3 receivers, ostensibly gaining a numbers advantage in that part of the field. They also walk a safety down into the box.
- Pre-snap, I imagine Huff is seeing that the Mocs are (1) taking away the trips formation, (2) have more men in the box (6) than Furman has blockers (5), and (3) that there's no safety in the middle of the field.
- On the snap, I suspect Huff is probably ignoring anything going on with the three receivers. UTC has more men out there than we do. I expect he is only looking at the safety in the box. If that safety drops back, Huff would hand it off on the counter run as Furman now has 5 blockers for 5 defenders. If the safety attacks the run, he will vacate a space in the field for Harris to run behind him. The latter is what happens.
What makes this so tough is no matter what UTC does defensively, Furman has an answer. It's almost impossible to defend all of the options, especially if a QB is making good reads.
By the latter half of the season, Furman was hitting on a lot of big chunk plays. A lot of those were RPO-type throws to Harris on routes across the middle. They are nearly impossible to defend.
An example from last year's game against UTC (admittedly, I have no idea what Furman actually calls here, this is just how I see it):
- Furman has trips to the wide side. UTC counters with 4 defenders over the 3 receivers, ostensibly gaining a numbers advantage in that part of the field. They also walk a safety down into the box.
- Pre-snap, I imagine Huff is seeing that the Mocs are (1) taking away the trips formation, (2) have more men in the box (6) than Furman has blockers (5), and (3) that there's no safety in the middle of the field.
- On the snap, I suspect Huff is probably ignoring anything going on with the three receivers. UTC has more men out there than we do. I expect he is only looking at the safety in the box. If that safety drops back, Huff would hand it off on the counter run as Furman now has 5 blockers for 5 defenders. If the safety attacks the run, he will vacate a space in the field for Harris to run behind him. The latter is what happens.
What makes this so tough is no matter what UTC does defensively, Furman has an answer. It's almost impossible to defend all of the options, especially if a QB is making good reads.
Astro, good points. Thanks ! Let's bring it for TTU - hope a lot of people can come. I should be there ( and I will be loud !)AstroDin wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 5:47 amI think we're getting off track from the title of this thread…
Explosive Plays
Clay and the rest of the staff have talked about explosive plays since the beginning of this Coaching reign. Furman has worked hard to recruit and develop more playmakers.
I guess it takes many things to be an excellent receiver; route running, hands, speed, toughness to play nicked up, and at Furman > blocking. Height doesn't make an excellent receiver alone.
That said, a 6-2 Joshua Harris isn't common at the FCS level. I'll take that bet that by the time Harris graduates, he will have a place in the Furman record books.
I should have said this in my earlier post when Furman lost to APSU in the playoffs. It was obvious our receivers had issues separating from GOV's defenders and Wofford's. I didn't feel that was an issue for the Furman offense last season.
Furman wants to play physical football on both sides of the ball. I think what we can agree on for now is this group of receivers and tight ends is a step toward that goal. The coaches know what they've got more than us fans.
I'm excited to see what Tyler Huff can do with this group of weapons.
A variation of how to use Harris out of the same/similar formation.
Trips right. Wofford loads the box. Harris gets the ball going in motion across the backfield.
Trips right. Wofford loads the box. Harris gets the ball going in motion across the backfield.
Purple rain wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:19 amOur QB is explosive and can get it done. It starts with Tyler. He fits right in with all the great Furman QBs of days gone by.
Winner!
DINS!
Huff's ability as a runner is a difference maker. He's not simply a guy that scrambles (though he can do that), but Furman uses him as an additional running back.
A variation on a theme. Here, again, Furman is in a trips formation. Running back to the trips side. This time, the TE is on the line and not split out.
Here, you can see how Huff can pressure a defense. Because Furman will use him as a second (or third) running back, defenses have to prepare not only that the RB will be the primary ball carrier, but also Huff's lead blocker.
It's a numbers game. UTC has to respect the three receivers and cover them with four defenders. There's a play fake by the running back feigning an inside run, who then cuts back as a lead blocker. Furman now has numbers - 6 men in the box against 7 blockers (including the running back).
Stumpy liked this