Here’s my take which admittedly is worth nothing. I think HS is a serviceable QB if that is what you want. I also think he has reached his pinnacle. If you want to keep doing the same thing with the same results ok. JW showed some flashes Saturday but also had some bad decisions. Is he ready? No. So what do you do? I think you stay with Sisson against WC and Citadel. When all hope is lost you give the reins to JW for 3 games and see what happens and then still redshirt him. Let Sisson or Shiflett finish what’s left.
Backup QB
I'm not a fan of a 2 qb system but in this case, If they could build a few plays around JW's talents and let him run them for a quarter or so, it could take some pressure off HS while giving opposing Ds more to prepare for. Three more games would take us through the ETSU game. Then we would know what we have and could decide about red shirting . Honestly, I think there is a chance of winning the next 2 and the last 3 giving us a 7-4 and a playoff bubble. And yes, I think Mercer is better than we think via the transfer portal.
Have to wonder if Shiflett is this years Forcier?
I certainly understand the caution to make a change at QB or OC. As the HC you plan your entire season around what you have and changing that abruptly in-game or in-season should only happen if it will vastly improve what’s out there. If what’s not working can just be fixed I prefer that. Hamp and GQ are the guys in place. If they are not the best fit I hate the thought that CCH didn’t figure that out in the off-season and make that correction.
I have a lot of faith in CCH, his discipline, and general football prowess. I still remember his press conference after the hire and loved the idea of getting back to hardnose football and winning the battle in the trenches. The idea that we would impose our will and not need to use the pass to setup the run was a huge selling point. Unfortunately he didn’t get to keep his initial coaching staff together when Cronic left for a HC job. The multiple offense that look unstoppable that first year apparently left with Cronic.
It seems we’ve always been waiting on something with CCH. Waiting on our young QBs to mature, waiting on GQ to show his potential, waiting for the multiple offense to return, waiting for a complete season, waiting to be the class of the SoCon. Here we are with a couple of seasons with GQ and a Junior QB yet we want to see what the freshman QB can do with a Brian Bratton offense. I trust CCH to put the best product out there bc ultimately his job depends on success. I doubt there’s a single thing on here we say that he is not aware of, but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating.
With that said here’s what I would do as an armchair coach:
1 - Get back to the basics. Commit to the run. If they stack the box, put in more blockers. Do not let the defense take away our offensive plan. We are loaded at RB and we are a running team.
2 - If we are determined to throw when the box is stacked keep it simple. Stop throwing at the sideline and 40 yards down field. If we aren’t going to hand it to the RBs, throw it to them. Just move those chains until we can run the ball.
3 - Use LS more. The guy is a player so just let him play. Our red zone percentage for TDs stink. Bring LS in once we hit the red zone and make the defense guard all 11 guys.
I’m not ready to burn it all down at start fresh when we are 2-2 with an FBS loss. I suspect Mercer is very good as I expected them to be after hiring Cronic. He has shown an amazing ability to take the reigns with a new team and immediately win time and time again. That is good for the conference. That is good for SoCon representation in the post-season. We should still beat the bottom of the SoCon and compete with the top. It does feel like we are reaching a tipping point with CCH where we need to stop waiting and see some results. I’ll wait a bit longer but I’m ready to beat Wofford and Citadel and make noise in the playoffs. A loss to Mercer doesn’t prevent any of that. However, the way we lost sure does hurt. It shakes my faith in CCH. But after a long-winded post on here that he’ll never see I feel better. Thank goodness for a bye week so that loss can sink in. Our boys will focus that hurt on Woffy.
I have a lot of faith in CCH, his discipline, and general football prowess. I still remember his press conference after the hire and loved the idea of getting back to hardnose football and winning the battle in the trenches. The idea that we would impose our will and not need to use the pass to setup the run was a huge selling point. Unfortunately he didn’t get to keep his initial coaching staff together when Cronic left for a HC job. The multiple offense that look unstoppable that first year apparently left with Cronic.
It seems we’ve always been waiting on something with CCH. Waiting on our young QBs to mature, waiting on GQ to show his potential, waiting for the multiple offense to return, waiting for a complete season, waiting to be the class of the SoCon. Here we are with a couple of seasons with GQ and a Junior QB yet we want to see what the freshman QB can do with a Brian Bratton offense. I trust CCH to put the best product out there bc ultimately his job depends on success. I doubt there’s a single thing on here we say that he is not aware of, but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating.
With that said here’s what I would do as an armchair coach:
1 - Get back to the basics. Commit to the run. If they stack the box, put in more blockers. Do not let the defense take away our offensive plan. We are loaded at RB and we are a running team.
2 - If we are determined to throw when the box is stacked keep it simple. Stop throwing at the sideline and 40 yards down field. If we aren’t going to hand it to the RBs, throw it to them. Just move those chains until we can run the ball.
3 - Use LS more. The guy is a player so just let him play. Our red zone percentage for TDs stink. Bring LS in once we hit the red zone and make the defense guard all 11 guys.
I’m not ready to burn it all down at start fresh when we are 2-2 with an FBS loss. I suspect Mercer is very good as I expected them to be after hiring Cronic. He has shown an amazing ability to take the reigns with a new team and immediately win time and time again. That is good for the conference. That is good for SoCon representation in the post-season. We should still beat the bottom of the SoCon and compete with the top. It does feel like we are reaching a tipping point with CCH where we need to stop waiting and see some results. I’ll wait a bit longer but I’m ready to beat Wofford and Citadel and make noise in the playoffs. A loss to Mercer doesn’t prevent any of that. However, the way we lost sure does hurt. It shakes my faith in CCH. But after a long-winded post on here that he’ll never see I feel better. Thank goodness for a bye week so that loss can sink in. Our boys will focus that hurt on Woffy.
Definitely agree on the simple throws. Some screens , quick outs, hit the RBs in the flat (that worked v NCAT !) - I would rather run on every play also. 5 yards in a cloud of dust ... Like w Cronic ! But if we can't then throw a little - Easy completions as listed above - to back the guys out of the box on D .. We have to do something ! I mean passes that any D1 FCS QB should be able to complete. Quick screens to a nearby recvr. passes to the flat. It would open up the box a littleFUpaladin08 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:48 pmI certainly understand the caution to make a change at QB or OC. As the HC you plan your entire season around what you have and changing that abruptly in-game or in-season should only happen if it will vastly improve what’s out there. If what’s not working can just be fixed I prefer that. Hamp and GQ are the guys in place. If they are not the best fit I hate the thought that CCH didn’t figure that out in the off-season and make that correction.
I have a lot of faith in CCH, his discipline, and general football prowess. I still remember his press conference after the hire and loved the idea of getting back to hardnose football and winning the battle in the trenches. The idea that we would impose our will and not need to use the pass to setup the run was a huge selling point. Unfortunately he didn’t get to keep his initial coaching staff together when Cronic left for a HC job. The multiple offense that look unstoppable that first year apparently left with Cronic.
It seems we’ve always been waiting on something with CCH. Waiting on our young QBs to mature, waiting on GQ to show his potential, waiting for the multiple offense to return, waiting for a complete season, waiting to be the class of the SoCon. Here we are with a couple of seasons with GQ and a Junior QB yet we want to see what the freshman QB can do with a Brian Bratton offense. I trust CCH to put the best product out there bc ultimately his job depends on success. I doubt there’s a single thing on here we say that he is not aware of, but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating.
With that said here’s what I would do as an armchair coach:
1 - Get back to the basics. Commit to the run. If they stack the box, put in more blockers. Do not let the defense take away our offensive plan. We are loaded at RB and we are a running team.
2 - If we are determined to throw when the box is stacked keep it simple. Stop throwing at the sideline and 40 yards down field. If we aren’t going to hand it to the RBs, throw it to them. Just move those chains until we can run the ball.
3 - Use LS more. The guy is a player so just let him play. Our red zone percentage for TDs stink. Bring LS in once we hit the red zone and make the defense guard all 11 guys.
I’m not ready to burn it all down at start fresh when we are 2-2 with an FBS loss. I suspect Mercer is very good as I expected them to be after hiring Cronic. He has shown an amazing ability to take the reigns with a new team and immediately win time and time again. That is good for the conference. That is good for SoCon representation in the post-season. We should still beat the bottom of the SoCon and compete with the top. It does feel like we are reaching a tipping point with CCH where we need to stop waiting and see some results. I’ll wait a bit longer but I’m ready to beat Wofford and Citadel and make noise in the playoffs. A loss to Mercer doesn’t prevent any of that. However, the way we lost sure does hurt. It shakes my faith in CCH. But after a long-winded post on here that he’ll never see I feel better. Thank goodness for a bye week so that loss can sink in. Our boys will focus that hurt on Woffy.
When we threw the 40 yd INT on Saturday it was horrible - right to the defender. The pass intended for Harris near the goal line. I know, I know - you need to stretch field.. but how about some basic passes first
Serious question - why can't we replicate just a few pieces of that offense? CCH and Quarles and Cronic worked together for a year.. a year plus film - isn't that enough to take at least a few plays from it which might change things up a little ?? I am really askingFUpaladin08 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:48 pmI certainly understand the caution to make a change at QB or OC. As the HC you plan your entire season around what you have and changing that abruptly in-game or in-season should only happen if it will vastly improve what’s out there. If what’s not working can just be fixed I prefer that. Hamp and GQ are the guys in place. If they are not the best fit I hate the thought that CCH didn’t figure that out in the off-season and make that correction.
I have a lot of faith in CCH, his discipline, and general football prowess. I still remember his press conference after the hire and loved the idea of getting back to hardnose football and winning the battle in the trenches. The idea that we would impose our will and not need to use the pass to setup the run was a huge selling point. [b]Unfortunately he didn’t get to keep his initial coaching staff together when Cronic left for a HC job. The multiple offense that look unstoppable that first year apparently left with Cronic.[/b]
It seems we’ve always been waiting on something with CCH. Waiting on our young QBs to mature, waiting on GQ to show his potential, waiting for the multiple offense to return, waiting for a complete season, waiting to be the class of the SoCon. Here we are with a couple of seasons with GQ and a Junior QB yet we want to see what the freshman QB can do with a Brian Bratton offense. I trust CCH to put the best product out there bc ultimately his job depends on success. I doubt there’s a single thing on here we say that he is not aware of, but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating.
With that said here’s what I would do as an armchair coach:
1 - Get back to the basics. Commit to the run. If they stack the box, put in more blockers. Do not let the defense take away our offensive plan. We are loaded at RB and we are a running team.
2 - If we are determined to throw when the box is stacked keep it simple. Stop throwing at the sideline and 40 yards down field. If we aren’t going to hand it to the RBs, throw it to them. Just move those chains until we can run the ball.
3 - Use LS more. The guy is a player so just let him play. Our red zone percentage for TDs stink. Bring LS in once we hit the red zone and make the defense guard all 11 guys.
I’m not ready to burn it all down at start fresh when we are 2-2 with an FBS loss. I suspect Mercer is very good as I expected them to be after hiring Cronic. He has shown an amazing ability to take the reigns with a new team and immediately win time and time again. That is good for the conference. That is good for SoCon representation in the post-season. We should still beat the bottom of the SoCon and compete with the top. It does feel like we are reaching a tipping point with CCH where we need to stop waiting and see some results. I’ll wait a bit longer but I’m ready to beat Wofford and Citadel and make noise in the playoffs. A loss to Mercer doesn’t prevent any of that. However, the way we lost sure does hurt. It shakes my faith in CCH. But after a long-winded post on here that he’ll never see I feel better. Thank goodness for a bye week so that loss can sink in. Our boys will focus that hurt on Woffy.
apaladin liked this
I'm as bumfuddled as everyone else about what to do. The dilemma is do you change QB's and start a true freshman or not?
I liked what I saw from Jace. He looks like he has a good arm and he definitely brings a run option into the picture. But he is a freshman and there will be mistakes.
HS showed improvement in the first 2 games and I was as disappointed as everyone else on Sat. He made several good throws and we did move the ball some in the first half. Even scored a TD that was called back for phantom holding. The interception mistakes were critical, though. He gets a lot of tipped balls and maybe needs to put a little arc on his throws. Heck, I don't know.
The biggest problem as I see it is we cannot run the ball consistently and that's bad for a run first team. HS would look a lot better if we had a consistent run game.
So...I wouldn't burn the house down yet. We need to retool the offense during these 2 weeks and come up with some new looks and/or plays. I like FU Pal 08's idea. and also put together some plays for JW and/ or Shiflett and play 2 QB's.
Start HS with some new plays/looks, etc.
Then bring in JW. Maybe he can run the option when they stack the box on him and get a run game going and then hit them with a pass when they are not looking for it. But I wouldn't let him throw it too much yet cause bad things happen when you do that too much with a freshman QB. Then bring HS back in with some plays that he is good at, etc.
That is my uneducated opinion.
By the way, that win over A & T is not looking too bad now. They handled N.C. Central.
I liked what I saw from Jace. He looks like he has a good arm and he definitely brings a run option into the picture. But he is a freshman and there will be mistakes.
HS showed improvement in the first 2 games and I was as disappointed as everyone else on Sat. He made several good throws and we did move the ball some in the first half. Even scored a TD that was called back for phantom holding. The interception mistakes were critical, though. He gets a lot of tipped balls and maybe needs to put a little arc on his throws. Heck, I don't know.
The biggest problem as I see it is we cannot run the ball consistently and that's bad for a run first team. HS would look a lot better if we had a consistent run game.
So...I wouldn't burn the house down yet. We need to retool the offense during these 2 weeks and come up with some new looks and/or plays. I like FU Pal 08's idea. and also put together some plays for JW and/ or Shiflett and play 2 QB's.
Start HS with some new plays/looks, etc.
Then bring in JW. Maybe he can run the option when they stack the box on him and get a run game going and then hit them with a pass when they are not looking for it. But I wouldn't let him throw it too much yet cause bad things happen when you do that too much with a freshman QB. Then bring HS back in with some plays that he is good at, etc.
That is my uneducated opinion.
By the way, that win over A & T is not looking too bad now. They handled N.C. Central.
I am glad you feel better. I certainly don’t mind your long-winded post! However, you do need to realize you’re being delusional about things (no more delusional than the majority on here). “Make some noise in the playoffs.” Delusional, especially if “make noise in the playoffs” means what I think it means, i.e., get there and win a game or two.FUpaladin08 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:48 pmI certainly understand the caution to make a change at QB or OC. As the HC you plan your entire season around what you have and changing that abruptly in-game or in-season should only happen if it will vastly improve what’s out there. If what’s not working can just be fixed I prefer that. Hamp and GQ are the guys in place. If they are not the best fit I hate the thought that CCH didn’t figure that out in the off-season and make that correction.
I have a lot of faith in CCH, his discipline, and general football prowess. I still remember his press conference after the hire and loved the idea of getting back to hardnose football and winning the battle in the trenches. The idea that we would impose our will and not need to use the pass to setup the run was a huge selling point. Unfortunately he didn’t get to keep his initial coaching staff together when Cronic left for a HC job. The multiple offense that look unstoppable that first year apparently left with Cronic.
It seems we’ve always been waiting on something with CCH. Waiting on our young QBs to mature, waiting on GQ to show his potential, waiting for the multiple offense to return, waiting for a complete season, waiting to be the class of the SoCon. Here we are with a couple of seasons with GQ and a Junior QB yet we want to see what the freshman QB can do with a Brian Bratton offense. I trust CCH to put the best product out there bc ultimately his job depends on success. I doubt there’s a single thing on here we say that he is not aware of, but it doesn’t make it any less frustrating.
With that said here’s what I would do as an armchair coach:
1 - Get back to the basics. Commit to the run. If they stack the box, put in more blockers. Do not let the defense take away our offensive plan. We are loaded at RB and we are a running team.
2 - If we are determined to throw when the box is stacked keep it simple. Stop throwing at the sideline and 40 yards down field. If we aren’t going to hand it to the RBs, throw it to them. Just move those chains until we can run the ball.
3 - Use LS more. The guy is a player so just let him play. Our red zone percentage for TDs stink. Bring LS in once we hit the red zone and make the defense guard all 11 guys.
I’m not ready to burn it all down at start fresh when we are 2-2 with an FBS loss. I suspect Mercer is very good as I expected them to be after hiring Cronic. He has shown an amazing ability to take the reigns with a new team and immediately win time and time again. That is good for the conference. That is good for SoCon representation in the post-season. We should still beat the bottom of the SoCon and compete with the top. It does feel like we are reaching a tipping point with CCH where we need to stop waiting and see some results. I’ll wait a bit longer but I’m ready to beat Wofford and Citadel and make noise in the playoffs. A loss to Mercer doesn’t prevent any of that. However, the way we lost sure does hurt. It shakes my faith in CCH. But after a long-winded post on here that he’ll never see I feel better. Thank goodness for a bye week so that loss can sink in. Our boys will focus that hurt on Woffy.
“Cronic winning good for the SoCon.” Delusional, if you think Cronic is in the SoCon for the long term. He’ll be moving up (we should hope; we do need to beat Mercer sometime in the next 5 years). I’m glad you feel better, but I believe that facing reality would cause you to get even better. It’s hard I know.
Last edited by Affirm on Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
You can take it to the bank, we will not beat Mercer as long as Cronic is there and I said that when he was hired, just didn’t think the gap would be this large this soon. Hope he moves, the sooner the better.
FU69 liked this
I’m not saying I want Cronic to stay in the SoCon forever, just until we are a 3 bid league again. Then he can leave lol. Unfortunately for him he has limited options due to the offense he runs. No Power 5 conference will touch it, and no existing FBS team is going to rebuild around it. I suppose there are some FCS options but most would feel like a lateral move. Best opportunity would probably be the OC at Air Force, but a more likely landing spot would be Georgia Southern. However GSU has this love/hate relationship with option football where they try to dump it every 5-10 years and inevitably go right back to it like some sort of toxic ex-girlfriend.
I don’t know what his future holds but I don’t mind his success helping the conference while he’s here. Sometimes that means embarrassing Furman like he did last Saturday. Fine, learn from it and move on. GSU and App used to do the same thing to us. More recently it’s been Wofford and Citadel. Maybe we’re just trading one team for another in the SoCon? Either way it seems we can’t make that next step to stay atop the conference.
This is why I feel a bit better after realizing Mercer is just the new team we’ll have to deal with on that challenge for the title. Now if we get embarrassed by Woffy and Cit this year that would not be a good sign. But if Mercer is our only conference loss we’re still that Furman team that is coming up short in the big games and we’ll be those Furman fans left waiting for that team that is consistently at the top.
So for now I’ll say the sky is not falling (let’s check back on that in 3 weeks). I think the seasons are just changing and Furman is letting the void left by Woffy be filled by Mercer. That doesn’t change what the team needs to do this year. Use the bye week to figure out what’s has worked (bc there have been highlights this year) and what hasn’t worked. Then go win some SoCon games. I don’t want to image a world where Mercer, VMI, and ETSU are the top SoCon teams. That sort of internal upheaval is what keeps us as a 1 bid league.
I don’t know what his future holds but I don’t mind his success helping the conference while he’s here. Sometimes that means embarrassing Furman like he did last Saturday. Fine, learn from it and move on. GSU and App used to do the same thing to us. More recently it’s been Wofford and Citadel. Maybe we’re just trading one team for another in the SoCon? Either way it seems we can’t make that next step to stay atop the conference.
This is why I feel a bit better after realizing Mercer is just the new team we’ll have to deal with on that challenge for the title. Now if we get embarrassed by Woffy and Cit this year that would not be a good sign. But if Mercer is our only conference loss we’re still that Furman team that is coming up short in the big games and we’ll be those Furman fans left waiting for that team that is consistently at the top.
So for now I’ll say the sky is not falling (let’s check back on that in 3 weeks). I think the seasons are just changing and Furman is letting the void left by Woffy be filled by Mercer. That doesn’t change what the team needs to do this year. Use the bye week to figure out what’s has worked (bc there have been highlights this year) and what hasn’t worked. Then go win some SoCon games. I don’t want to image a world where Mercer, VMI, and ETSU are the top SoCon teams. That sort of internal upheaval is what keeps us as a 1 bid league.
FUpaladin08 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:03 amSo for now I’ll say the sky is not falling (let’s check back on that in 3 weeks). I think the seasons are just changing and Furman is letting the void left by Woffy be filled by Mercer. That doesn’t change what the team needs to do this year. Use the bye week to figure out what’s has worked (bc there have been highlights this year) and what hasn’t worked. Then go win some SoCon games. I don’t want to image a world where Mercer, VMI, and ETSU are the top SoCon teams. That sort of internal upheaval is what keeps us as a 1 bid league.
Furman's FCS Massey rankings under CCH, sequentially by year -
25, 25, 33, 51, 52
It's essentially unheard of for a staff to trend negatively like that, and then turn things around. Just doesn't happen. I was hoping (against reality) that the Spring was a fluke and things would go back in the right direction. But now it's a fact that CCH has not turned things around, and is basically in the same territory now as Fowler (interesting that offense was the biggest weakness for both HCs).
bj93 liked this
Not so fast. We’re going through the same thing with our local HS. When you watch the game you can see that we are awful. You can start to lose hope. But we will probably run the table in our region because it is so bad. Then all is forgotten. We lose in the playoffs, blame the ref’s and everybody’s happy.
As bad as Furman appears to be, there is a good chance we win the rest of our regular season games! Our competition just isn’t very good. Then we will almost certainly lose honorably to some less selective school and their cheating refs in the playoffs, but that’s OK.
As bad as Furman appears to be, there is a good chance we win the rest of our regular season games! Our competition just isn’t very good. Then we will almost certainly lose honorably to some less selective school and their cheating refs in the playoffs, but that’s OK.
FUpaladin08 liked this
Agreed. We are 2-2 with a top 25 win and an FBS loss. I think we all agree Mercer is good. Should be ranked if they keep up this sort of play. Should the offense be better? Absolutely, and that’s why we are all worried about a repeat from the Spring. But the season is far from over with 1 SoCon loss. We shouldn’t read too much into this swing and miss of a game until we have more games under the belt.Furmanoid wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:41 amNot so fast. We’re going through the same thing with our local HS. When you watch the game you can see that we are awful. You can start to lose hope. But we will probably run the table in our region because it is so bad. Then all is forgotten. We lose in the playoffs, blame the ref’s and everybody’s happy.
As bad as Furman appears to be, there is a good chance we win the rest of our regular season games! Our competition just isn’t very good. Then we will almost certainly lose honorably to some less selective school and their cheating refs in the playoffs, but that’s OK.