starters?

[Paul C]

Heard good things about Fr DT Seth Johnson.....maybe he gets into the rotation inside

[gofurman]

Heard good things about Fr DT Seth Johnson.....maybe he gets into the rotation inside

thanks! updated my list - Latest version below


How does this list look? Are those safeties right per strong safety vs. free safety?? - my old mind can't remember who was at which safety position last year...
UPDATED w Astro comments on safeties etc

* UPDATED w Grainger QB and Watkins RB and Hodge NG leaving *


(definite starters in bold per my worthless opinion)


QB - Sisson (R-SOPH)/ Jack Hardin (R-JNR)
TB - Wynn (SNR)/ Anderson (SOPH) / Kendall Thomas? (FR)
RB - Abrams (R-SOPH) / Roberto (SOPH)
SE - Deluca / Henderson / Shiflett
FLK - Dejuan Bell (R-SOPH)/ Hughes / Gunn
LT - Harris (R-SNR) / Detamore
LG - Kroeber (R-SNR) / Daniel
C - Jumper (SOPH) / Neely
RG - McKinney / Johanning
RT - Tomlin / Toomey (R-FR)
TE - Ryan Miller / Walker
-----

D
NG - Cam Coleman (starter? R-SOPH) / Parker Stokes / London Lewis??
DT - Sochovka (R-JNR) / London Lewis / Seth Johnson (FR)
DE - Landon Lawrence (SNR) / Agbenou (SOPH) / Seabrook / Barton
SPUR - Dae'one Wilkins / Owen / Wells
ILB - Braden Gilby / McCormick / DiMaggio
ILB - Jalen Miller / Youngblood
BAN - Elijah McKoy (SNR) / Hope (R-JNR) / Agbenou (SOPH)
DB - Blackshear (R-SOPH)/ Griffin (R-SOPH)
DB - Kearse (SNR) or Chizik (SOPH) / .. Domino (R-SOPH)
STRONG SAF?? D. Clay (SNR) / Jack Rhodes (FR)
FREE SAF?? Brinson (R-FR) Hugh Ryan (SOPH) / Austin Jones (R-FR) / Caden Richards (FR)

FR of note who may play ??
LB Evan DiMaggio, RB Kendall Thomas, WR Kelton Gunn, DE Jeremiah Johnson. Seth Johnson DL, 3 OL we signed ?

[The Jackal]

A few thoughts

* QB: I expect Hardin will be QB2. He's the only other guy that has played.
* TB: I expect to see Kendall Thomas, especially with COVID and redshirt rules being loosened. He was probably going to push for playing time even with Watkins.
* OL: I expect to see McKinney at RT and Johanning at RG.

*DL: As noted on the other thread, we've got a lot of guys that can move around a good bit up front depending on the situation. I would expect to see a lot of Coleman, Lewis, Lawrence, Sochovka, and Seabrook.
* SS: Safety is a bit of a toss up, but Clay has 11 starts at SS. He seems like the likely starter.
* FS: Less clear. Bryan Okeh held that position for so long, I'm not sure we've really ever seen long looks at other players. Ryan played a good bit. Jones is highly regarded but missed last season.

I guess the class designations are less important this year. Some of these freshmen, for instance, have gone through two years of practice already before we've seen them on the field. None of our guys are going to be straight off the bus from high school this spring.

[gofurman]

A few thoughts

* QB: I expect Hardin will be QB2. He's the only other guy that has played.
* TB: I expect to see Kendall Thomas, especially with COVID and redshirt rules being loosened. He was probably going to push for playing time even with Watkins.
* OL: I expect to see McKinney at RT and Johanning at RG.

*DL: As noted on the other thread, we've got a lot of guys that can move around a good bit up front depending on the situation. I would expect to see a lot of Coleman, Lewis, Lawrence, Sochovka, and Seabrook.
* SS: Safety is a bit of a toss up, but Clay has 11 starts at SS. He seems like the likely starter.
* FS: Less clear. Bryan Okeh held that position for so long, I'm not sure we've really ever seen long looks at other players. Ryan played a good bit. Jones is highly regarded but missed last season.

I guess the class designations are less important this year. Some of these freshmen, for instance, have gone through two years of practice already before we've seen them on the field. None of our guys are going to be straight off the bus from high school this spring.

inserted Hardin as the backup QB. I agree that he is the man in that spot.

just noticed all 3 of Elijah McKoy (SNR) / Hope (R-JNR) / Agbenou (SOPH) are listed at the BAN position.. I am sure they will try to have 2 of the 3 on the field at most all times as those are three of our best defenders. Probably DE and BAN

Not arguing, just asking - if McKinney is at RT and Johanning is RG then who is the starting and backup LG?

[AstroDin]

I would not be surprised to see one or two of the freshman offensive linemen in the two deep.

[The Jackal]

A few thoughts

* QB: I expect Hardin will be QB2. He's the only other guy that has played.
* TB: I expect to see Kendall Thomas, especially with COVID and redshirt rules being loosened. He was probably going to push for playing time even with Watkins.
* OL: I expect to see McKinney at RT and Johanning at RG.

*DL: As noted on the other thread, we've got a lot of guys that can move around a good bit up front depending on the situation. I would expect to see a lot of Coleman, Lewis, Lawrence, Sochovka, and Seabrook.
* SS: Safety is a bit of a toss up, but Clay has 11 starts at SS. He seems like the likely starter.
* FS: Less clear. Bryan Okeh held that position for so long, I'm not sure we've really ever seen long looks at other players. Ryan played a good bit. Jones is highly regarded but missed last season.

I guess the class designations are less important this year. Some of these freshmen, for instance, have gone through two years of practice already before we've seen them on the field. None of our guys are going to be straight off the bus from high school this spring.

inserted Hardin as the backup QB. I agree that he is the man in that spot.

just noticed all 3 of Elijah McKoy (SNR) / Hope (R-JNR) / Agbenou (SOPH) are listed at the BAN position.. I am sure they will try to have 2 of the 3 on the field at most all times as those are three of our best defenders. Probably DE and BAN

Not arguing, just asking - if McKinney is at RT and Johanning is RG then who is the starting and backup LG?

Reed Kroeber has close to 35 starts, mostly at LG, so I assume he'll be the starter. Clark Daniel was his backup last year, so I assume he'll back him up.

I doubt you will see 2 BAN players on the field at the same time with any regularity - they play the same position.

I could see a scenario where Furman wants to give a three linebacker look at the second level. Theoretically they could use a player like McKoy - who has played a lot of inside linebacker - and use him as a more traditional weak side linebacker.

[gofurman]

A few thoughts

* QB: I expect Hardin will be QB2. He's the only other guy that has played.
* TB: I expect to see Kendall Thomas, especially with COVID and redshirt rules being loosened. He was probably going to push for playing time even with Watkins.
* OL: I expect to see McKinney at RT and Johanning at RG.

*DL: As noted on the other thread, we've got a lot of guys that can move around a good bit up front depending on the situation. I would expect to see a lot of Coleman, Lewis, Lawrence, Sochovka, and Seabrook.
* SS: Safety is a bit of a toss up, but Clay has 11 starts at SS. He seems like the likely starter.
* FS: Less clear. Bryan Okeh held that position for so long, I'm not sure we've really ever seen long looks at other players. Ryan played a good bit. Jones is highly regarded but missed last season.

I guess the class designations are less important this year. Some of these freshmen, for instance, have gone through two years of practice already before we've seen them on the field. None of our guys are going to be straight off the bus from high school this spring.

inserted Hardin as the backup QB. I agree that he is the man in that spot.

just noticed all 3 of Elijah McKoy (SNR) / Hope (R-JNR) / Agbenou (SOPH) are listed at the BAN position.. I am sure they will try to have 2 of the 3 on the field at most all times as those are three of our best defenders. Probably DE and BAN

Not arguing, just asking - if McKinney is at RT and Johanning is RG then who is the starting and backup LG?

Reed Kroeber has close to 35 starts, mostly at LG, so I assume he'll be the starter. Clark Daniel was his backup last year, so I assume he'll back him up.

I doubt you will see 2 BAN players on the field at the same time with any regularity - they play the same position.

I could see a scenario where Furman wants to give a three linebacker look at the second level. Theoretically they could use a player like McKoy - who has played a lot of inside linebacker - and use him as a more traditional weak side linebacker.

I just can't imagine having 2 of the 3 of McKoy (great player - All conference freshman I think), Agbenou (athletic star), and Hope (All-America candidate) on the sideline. I would think you would find a way to get at least two of them on the field. Agbenou was listed at DE for a while which made sense to me to get him out there though he is a little light for DE. To me those are 3 of the best 8 or 9 defenders we have. IMO it would be odd to see 2 of them on the sideline...

[The Jackal]

A few thoughts

* QB: I expect Hardin will be QB2. He's the only other guy that has played.
* TB: I expect to see Kendall Thomas, especially with COVID and redshirt rules being loosened. He was probably going to push for playing time even with Watkins.
* OL: I expect to see McKinney at RT and Johanning at RG.

*DL: As noted on the other thread, we've got a lot of guys that can move around a good bit up front depending on the situation. I would expect to see a lot of Coleman, Lewis, Lawrence, Sochovka, and Seabrook.
* SS: Safety is a bit of a toss up, but Clay has 11 starts at SS. He seems like the likely starter.
* FS: Less clear. Bryan Okeh held that position for so long, I'm not sure we've really ever seen long looks at other players. Ryan played a good bit. Jones is highly regarded but missed last season.

I guess the class designations are less important this year. Some of these freshmen, for instance, have gone through two years of practice already before we've seen them on the field. None of our guys are going to be straight off the bus from high school this spring.

inserted Hardin as the backup QB. I agree that he is the man in that spot.

just noticed all 3 of Elijah McKoy (SNR) / Hope (R-JNR) / Agbenou (SOPH) are listed at the BAN position.. I am sure they will try to have 2 of the 3 on the field at most all times as those are three of our best defenders. Probably DE and BAN

Not arguing, just asking - if McKinney is at RT and Johanning is RG then who is the starting and backup LG?

Reed Kroeber has close to 35 starts, mostly at LG, so I assume he'll be the starter. Clark Daniel was his backup last year, so I assume he'll back him up.

I doubt you will see 2 BAN players on the field at the same time with any regularity - they play the same position.

I could see a scenario where Furman wants to give a three linebacker look at the second level. Theoretically they could use a player like McKoy - who has played a lot of inside linebacker - and use him as a more traditional weak side linebacker.

I just can't imagine having 2 of the 3 of McKoy (great player - All conference freshman I think), Agbenou (athletic star), and Hope (All-America candidate) on the sideline. I would think you would find a way to get at least two of them on the field. Agbenou was listed at DE for a while which made sense to me to get him out there though he is a little light for DE. To me those are 3 of the best 8 or 9 defenders we have. IMO it would be odd to see 2 of them on the sideline...

I think there's a chance they will move around, but it would be surprising to have 2 players on the field playing the same position with any regularity.

Remember, defensive players rotate a bunch. Vaughn, in particular, likes to keep guys fresh and substitutes frequently. If you have the depth, it is often better to have a guy play full tilt for 25-30 snaps than get worn down after 60.

I think that is especially true at the BANDIT position, which, in my opinion, is arguably the toughest position to play on the football field. That position is not only required to rush the passer, but frequently deals with the offenses biggest and strongest players (the OT). They have to keep outside leverage and are constantly fighting off pulling linemen and running backs. They are also the man most frequently optioned, which requires a lot of eye discipline and ability to get out on the edge. Having fresh legs there is critical.

Also, a data point - Agbenou spent most of last season as the backup to Hope at BANDIT. He was 12th on the team in tackles and 5th in tackles for loss. He played a lot.

[curiousfan]

Getting anxious for some FCS football!!!!!

[Paul C]

A few thoughts

* QB: I expect Hardin will be QB2. He's the only other guy that has played.
* TB: I expect to see Kendall Thomas, especially with COVID and redshirt rules being loosened. He was probably going to push for playing time even with Watkins.
* OL: I expect to see McKinney at RT and Johanning at RG.

*DL: As noted on the other thread, we've got a lot of guys that can move around a good bit up front depending on the situation. I would expect to see a lot of Coleman, Lewis, Lawrence, Sochovka, and Seabrook.
* SS: Safety is a bit of a toss up, but Clay has 11 starts at SS. He seems like the likely starter.
* FS: Less clear. Bryan Okeh held that position for so long, I'm not sure we've really ever seen long looks at other players. Ryan played a good bit. Jones is highly regarded but missed last season.

I guess the class designations are less important this year. Some of these freshmen, for instance, have gone through two years of practice already before we've seen them on the field. None of our guys are going to be straight off the bus from high school this spring.

inserted Hardin as the backup QB. I agree that he is the man in that spot.

just noticed all 3 of Elijah McKoy (SNR) / Hope (R-JNR) / Agbenou (SOPH) are listed at the BAN position.. I am sure they will try to have 2 of the 3 on the field at most all times as those are three of our best defenders. Probably DE and BAN

Not arguing, just asking - if McKinney is at RT and Johanning is RG then who is the starting and backup LG?

Reed Kroeber has close to 35 starts, mostly at LG, so I assume he'll be the starter. Clark Daniel was his backup last year, so I assume he'll back him up.

I doubt you will see 2 BAN players on the field at the same time with any regularity - they play the same position.

I could see a scenario where Furman wants to give a three linebacker look at the second level. Theoretically they could use a player like McKoy - who has played a lot of inside linebacker - and use him as a more traditional weak side linebacker.

I just can't imagine having 2 of the 3 of McKoy (great player - All conference freshman I think), Agbenou (athletic star), and Hope (All-America candidate) on the sideline. I would think you would find a way to get at least two of them on the field. Agbenou was listed at DE for a while which made sense to me to get him out there though he is a little light for DE. To me those are 3 of the best 8 or 9 defenders we have. IMO it would be odd to see 2 of them on the sideline...

You can't think about it that way....to oversimplify, if you have 3 really good versatile players that can play 2 similar spots then each of them can play 66% of the snaps. Especially on D....this isn't like looking at the QB position. Most really good D's go 2 deep at every position, or at least most of them aside from maybe the ILB spot(s)

[gofurman]

A few thoughts

* QB: I expect Hardin will be QB2. He's the only other guy that has played.
* TB: I expect to see Kendall Thomas, especially with COVID and redshirt rules being loosened. He was probably going to push for playing time even with Watkins.
* OL: I expect to see McKinney at RT and Johanning at RG.

*DL: As noted on the other thread, we've got a lot of guys that can move around a good bit up front depending on the situation. I would expect to see a lot of Coleman, Lewis, Lawrence, Sochovka, and Seabrook.
* SS: Safety is a bit of a toss up, but Clay has 11 starts at SS. He seems like the likely starter.
* FS: Less clear. Bryan Okeh held that position for so long, I'm not sure we've really ever seen long looks at other players. Ryan played a good bit. Jones is highly regarded but missed last season.

I guess the class designations are less important this year. Some of these freshmen, for instance, have gone through two years of practice already before we've seen them on the field. None of our guys are going to be straight off the bus from high school this spring.

inserted Hardin as the backup QB. I agree that he is the man in that spot.

just noticed all 3 of Elijah McKoy (SNR) / Hope (R-JNR) / Agbenou (SOPH) are listed at the BAN position.. I am sure they will try to have 2 of the 3 on the field at most all times as those are three of our best defenders. Probably DE and BAN

Not arguing, just asking - if McKinney is at RT and Johanning is RG then who is the starting and backup LG?

Reed Kroeber has close to 35 starts, mostly at LG, so I assume he'll be the starter. Clark Daniel was his backup last year, so I assume he'll back him up.

I doubt you will see 2 BAN players on the field at the same time with any regularity - they play the same position.

I could see a scenario where Furman wants to give a three linebacker look at the second level. Theoretically they could use a player like McKoy - who has played a lot of inside linebacker - and use him as a more traditional weak side linebacker.

I just can't imagine having 2 of the 3 of McKoy (great player - All conference freshman I think), Agbenou (athletic star), and Hope (All-America candidate) on the sideline. I would think you would find a way to get at least two of them on the field. Agbenou was listed at DE for a while which made sense to me to get him out there though he is a little light for DE. To me those are 3 of the best 8 or 9 defenders we have. IMO it would be odd to see 2 of them on the sideline...

You can't think about it that way....to oversimplify, if you have 3 really good versatile players that can play 2 similar spots then each of them can play 66% of the snaps. Especially on D....this isn't like looking at the QB position. Most really good D's go 2 deep at every position, or at least most of them aside from maybe the ILB spot(s)

Paul, trying to understand - I get if they can play '2 similar positions' you could easily have each of the 3 guys play 66% of the total defensive snaps. 2/3 of the available snaps at each of those 2 positions. That would make sense to me.

But Jackal is saying (if I understand correctly) these 3 guys would NOT play 2 similar positions as all 3 guys would play at the one singular BANDIT role. Meaning only one is playing at a time? As in 50% / 30% / 20% of the snaps but only one on the field at a time. Just seems odd to me with those 3 and the quality of play I have seen from them. I would understand Hope and Agbenou splitting time at Bandit and McKoy elsewhere or what not but to have all 3 as a BANDIT - limiting 3 very high quality players to one on the field and 2 on the sideline? oh well, it's just the roster listing.

let's just hope we have a season right now

[Furmanoid]

If they are that good, why wouldn’t they just play linebacker? I’m guessing they aren’t as agile as the smaller guys at LB. But they aren’t strong enough to play run defense on the DL. But on the third hand they can hella pass rush because they are faster than linemen. Maybe the younger one will grow up to be a true DE.

[The Jackal]

If they are that good, why wouldn’t they just play linebacker? I’m guessing they aren’t as agile as the smaller guys at LB. But they aren’t strong enough to play run defense on the DL. But on the third hand they can hella pass rush because they are faster than linemen. Maybe the younger one will grow up to be a true DE.

You all make things too complicated.

For starters, we have quality players at a number of different positions. Some positions rotate more frequently than others to keep fresh legs. BANDIT is one of those positions we will frequently rotate, so we'll need a few guys.

Second, there's no such thing as a "true DE." That is dependent on the defense and the scheme.

Furman runs a 3-4 scheme. The DE in Furman's scheme is not an outside pass rusher as he might be in a 4-3 defense, but more of a defensive tackle. Furman's DE lines up opposite the BANDIT to the offense's strong side, along with the SPUR backer.

We also have DTs, who play an almost identical position but will lineup on the same side of the BANDIT to the weak side. This brief clip from the VT game is as good an overview as any:

Hope is on his feet at BANDIT, next to him a DT (Sochovka), then NG (Hodge), then DE (Tibbs) and then SPUR (Willis). Tibbs is essentially a defensive tackle. The SPUR, of course, has a lot of pass coverage responsibility (frequently the TE).

In some circumstances, Furman will prefer a pass rush package of players. Most often, the nod goes to Dru Seabrook, who has greater length and pass rush ability. He rushes the passer opposite of the BANDIT. Lawrence, too, is also a relentless pass rusher from DE.

So, yes, it's possible that Furman puts two BANDITs on the field, but it seems unlikely that they would attack both edges. To play DE in Furman's scheme would require McKoy or Agbenou to put their hand on the ground and mix it up inside with the OT/OG. That is not their most efficient use and would be, in my opinion, a liability defensively.

More than that, our defense lead the league last year and we look like we'll be better this year. Just let the coaches work out who needs to be where.

[FUBeAR]

If they are that good, why wouldn’t they just play linebacker? I’m guessing they aren’t as agile as the smaller guys at LB. But they aren’t strong enough to play run defense on the DL. But on the third hand they can hella pass rush because they are faster than linemen. Maybe the younger one will grow up to be a true DE.

You all make things too complicated.

For starters, we have quality players at a number of different positions. Some positions rotate more frequently than others to keep fresh legs. BANDIT is one of those positions we will frequently rotate, so we'll need a few guys.

Second, there's no such thing as a "true DE." That is dependent on the defense and the scheme.

Furman runs a 3-4 scheme. The DE in Furman's scheme is not an outside pass rusher as he might be in a 4-3 defense, but more of a defensive tackle. Furman's DE lines up opposite the BANDIT to the offense's strong side, along with the SPUR backer.

We also have DTs, who play an almost identical position but will lineup on the same side of the BANDIT to the weak side. This brief clip from the VT game is as good an overview as any:

Hope is on his feet at BANDIT, next to him a DT (Sochovka), then NG (Hodge), then DE (Tibbs) and then SPUR (Willis). Tibbs is essentially a defensive tackle. The SPUR, of course, has a lot of pass coverage responsibility (frequently the TE).

In some circumstances, Furman will prefer a pass rush package of players. Most often, the nod goes to Dru Seabrook, who has greater length and pass rush ability. He rushes the passer opposite of the BANDIT. Lawrence, too, is also a relentless pass rusher from DE.

So, yes, it's possible that Furman puts two BANDITs on the field, but it seems unlikely that they would attack both edges. To play DE in Furman's scheme would require McKoy or Agbenou to put their hand on the ground and mix it up inside with the OT/OG. That is not their most efficient use and would be, in my opinion, a liability defensively.

More than that, our defense lead the league last year and we look like we'll be better this year. Just let the coaches work out who needs to be where.

All well & good, but none of that is effective against a Fake 23 Blast with a Backside George Reverse.

[Furmanoid]

The point I think I was trying to make was that you would maybe tweak some things to avoid having all world players on the bench. The simplest thing would be to play them at lb but they probably are quick enough. One of them might be able to eventually add enough strength to play a 9 technique but not the 7 technique you describe. So we’re probably just going to be really deep at bandit which is fine.