Clemson game thread

[gman]

Having never played ball myself, I look at the difference in size between our OL and Clemson's DL and wonder how the heck we are going to create any type of hole whatsoever. Do any of y'all think we can run the ball against them? I know with a big, slow, no-overly-bright group like we may have faced from OVC or other SoCon teams we compensate with technique, speed, etc, but Clemson's guys are big, fast, and well-coached. I really don't want this game to be over in 8 minutes. Is there any optimism to be had?

There is always optimism to be had. Big = slow, small = fast. Size and mass is sometimes an asset, but sometimes a liability. The universe is about balance, and every asset has an off-setting liability to be exploited. There have been many games where we were out-sized and moved the ball well, and even won the game.
[/quote

Except, Clemson has big and fast lineman. It will be a challenge to move the ball. I just want us to play well, and leave with no injuries. Go Paladins!

[FUBeAR]

Having never played ball myself, I look at the difference in size between our OL and Clemson's DL and wonder how the heck we are going to create any type of hole whatsoever. Do any of y'all think we can run the ball against them? I know with a big, slow, no-overly-bright group like we may have faced from OVC or other SoCon teams we compensate with technique, speed, etc, but Clemson's guys are big, fast, and well-coached. I really don't want this game to be over in 8 minutes. Is there any optimism to be had?

Here’s some optimism which should completely allay your concerns about Furman being at a size disadvantage ‘in the trenches.’

Furman’s Starting Offensive Line’s Average HT/WT is 6’ 5”/285

Clemson’s Front 7 on Defense (if they start the NG who was listed as an “OR” Starter on their Post-Spring Practice Depth Chatt), on the average is 6’ 3/266.

So...upfront, when on Offense, Furman has a 2” & almost 20 pound size advantage over the Tigers.

Now, people looking for the cloud inside the silver lining (you know who you are) might say, “Well, that includes the Linebackers & Clemson’s D-Line is so massive, the LB’s won’t even have to worry about making any tackles.” To which, I would reply, from the Latin, “Au contraire, mon frere!” Clemson’s DL’s Avg HT/WT is 6’ 4”/291. An inch shorter and only an old lady’s workout dumbbell heavier than our Paladin OLine. If we’re skeered of 5 or 6 pounds, we shouldn’t even show up next Saturday.

Now, I don’t know the HT/WT comparisons when we beat UNC most recently, but I can assure you that when we beat the Cocks, Georgia Tech, & NC State (2x) 4 years in a row, most of their LB’s were Taller & Heavier than almost all of our OLmen. Their D-Lines probably outweighed our OL by an average difference of nearly 40 pounds per man. Coach Hendrix was on all 4 of those Teams & started at least 2 of those games, and I think it was 3 of them. I’m pretty sure he ain’t skeered!

NOTE: Don’t calculate the numbers for their OL vs FU’s DL/Front 7. Those numbers kinda worry me, but I know Coach Staggs...he ain’t skeeered neither!

EDIT: Actually, after further review, Clemson's Starting O-Line's AVG HT/WT is 'only' 6' 4"/307. Coach Caldwell must be leanin' 'em up down there and has convinced those folks that an OLman's 'altitude' is way less important than his ability. On the depth chart I'm looking at, released in May, they are starting a 6' 2" OT and not starting any OLmen over 6' 5" - Pretty soon Coach Caldwell will have their O-Line playing as well as the New England Patriots, who should have 3 Starters this year 6'3"and under.

But the lack of optimism and fear of injury was primarily based upon size...so, let's compare the 'massiveness' that FU's Defense will see next Saturday playing a big-time FBS ACC School vs. what they will see week-in and week-out of the itty-bitty FCS OLine's in the SoCon...

Chattanooga: 6' 5"/311
Clemson: 6' 4"/307
WCU: 6' 4"/306
Samford: 6' 6"/301
ETSU: 6' 4"/301
VMI: 6' 5"/297
Mercer: 6' 4"/293
Wofford: 6' 3"/292
The Citadel: 6' 2"/276

Hmmmm.....Y'all ain't skeered of Chattanooga's, WCU's, Samford's, ETSU's, or VMI's O-Lines, are you? Well, they are bigger or about the same size as Clemson's. Only Mercer, Wofford, and the bellhops are appreciably smaller than the Tiggers up front.

Size difference and, I would imagine, strength differences aren't going to determine the outcome of this game. Speed, "raw" athletic ability, and, most importantly, DEPTH will be the bigger 'gaps' for which Furman will need to find a way to compensate. On offense, there are things that can be done to utilize those 1st 2 'advantages' against them. Hard to do that on Defense....I think forcing turnovers & taking (calculated) risks on D is about all that can be done, but I'm not a Defensive Coach...so, maybe there is more. DEPTH is the KILLER and on a HOT DAY, it can be especially lethal. DEPTH, in this case, just doesn't necessarily mean that Clemson has more Players than Furman (although that they will). What KILLS FCS Teams against FBS Teams is the 'gap' between the Talent Level of the FBS back-up and the FCS back-up. That difference is probably as much as 2x or 3x the difference in the Starters 'gap.' So, on a hot day, they can keep throwing backups out there that aren't much 'worse' than their Starters and keep everyone fresh as a daisy. FCS Teams' backups (in general, I'm not callin' anyone out here) just aren't good enough or experienced enough to 'handle' FBS Starters or their 2nd and 3rd Team Players. But, exhausted Starters aren't either. As the great Coach Hamlet Dane once said, "Ay, there's the rub..."

[The Jackal]

Always the same story - limit turnovers, keep the ball on the ground, shorten the game, and duck the haymaker.

Clemson doesn't want a four-quarter fight. They want to get up big early, and let the fans see all the new recruits. Furman has to know the uppercuts are coming early - maybe even the opening kickoff.

Survive the first quarter and finish out the halves strong. Let's see what happens.

[AstroDin]

Not a lot of coverage of the Furman/Clemson game that is at all respectful of Furman — except this one from the Clemson Insider. https://theclemsoninsider.com/2018/06/2 ... th-furman/

[Jasper]

Both Jackal and the BeAR are spot on. We need to make some first downs early in the game in order to give our very competitive defense a breather. If we go 3 and out on several consecutive series, those haymakers the Clemson O throws at us will be devastating. The depth that BeAR spoke about will be very evident at that point. A fumble or two or an inter would not hurt the FU cause either.

[FUBeAR]

Not a lot of coverage of the Furman/Clemson game that is at all respectful of Furman — except this one from the Clemson Insider. https://theclemsoninsider.com/2018/06/2 ... th-furman/

I think you are saying this one IS respectful and I agree. Good article without a lot of chest-puffing and self-stroking. Some interesting info in there too. I didn’t know Coach Johnson was the 1st-ever Clemson grad to (Head) Coach against the Tigers. I’m guessing Roberts will be the 1st current Clemson student to play against them.

One slight inaccuracy in the article though...

“Eventually Furman, and other smaller schools, formed Division I-AA or what is now known as FCS. That occurred in 1979 and that year the Tigers beat the Paladins 21-0 to start the season.”

The NCAA “formed” Division I-AA before the 1978 season. Furman, along with the rest of the SoCon, the Ivy League, and the Southland Conference, moved to I-AA before the 1982 season. When we played Clemson in 1979, both Teams were classified as NCAA Division I-A. That young 1979 Clemson Team was very good. Many of the leaders on that Team led Clemson to their 1st National Championship in 1981. Some high..well...actually lowlights of that game in the 1st 4 minutes of this video. Y’all may recognize some of the names of Furman Players that Jim (Clem?) Phillips calls out.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Egtwx92X ... fullscreen

Just thought of another parallel between that 1979 Furman @ Clemson game and the one upcoming this season. In 1979, it was the opening game on a hot, early afternoon playing against a very good Clemson Team in Coach Sheridan’s 2nd Year, coming off an outstanding debut season.

After losing to Clemson, we lost 4 in a row (PC (NAIA), Chattanooga, ETSU, and Wofford (NAIA)) to open the season at 0-5. While there was no social media at the time, FU Alums & Local Fans in GVL were telling us (Players) that they wanted Coach Sheridan fired after that Wofford loss. Dr. Johns & John West (or was it Dutch Baughman by then?) were too smart for that though. We righted the ship & were a missed XP away from winning out the rest of them...then reeled off 4 straight SoCon Championships under Coach Sheridan.

In the unlikely event that Furman loses to Clemson next Sat., I don’t, by any stretch of my imagination, expect the Paladins to lose the next 4...but the term “Sophomore Slump” came to exist for a reason. My point is...if things don’t look quite as ‘dandy’ at the beginning of this season; keep the faith, Paladin Brothers. This is an outstanding Coaching Staff that is rebuilding an outstanding program. A great foundation was laid in 2017, but there are many bricks yet to be lain.

[fufanatic]

Not a lot of coverage of the Furman/Clemson game that is at all respectful of Furman — except this one from the Clemson Insider. https://theclemsoninsider.com/2018/06/2 ... th-furman/

I think you are saying this one IS respectful and I agree. Good article without a lot of chest-puffing and self-stroking. Some interesting info in there too. I didn’t know Coach Johnson was the 1st-ever Clemson grad to (Head) Coach against the Tigers. I’m guessing Roberts will be the 1st current Clemson student to play against them.

One slight inaccuracy in the article though...

“Eventually Furman, and other smaller schools, formed Division I-AA or what is now known as FCS. That occurred in 1979 and that year the Tigers beat the Paladins 21-0 to start the season.”

The NCAA “formed” Division I-AA before the 1978 season. Furman, along with the rest of the SoCon, the Ivy League, and the Southland Conference, moved to I-AA before the 1982 season. When we played Clemson in 1979, both Teams were classified as NCAA Division I-A. That young 1979 Clemson Team was very good. Many of the leaders on that Team led Clemson to their 1st National Championship in 1981. Some high..well...actually lowlights of that game in the 1st 4 minutes of this video. Y’all may recognize some of the names of Furman Players that Jim (Clem?) Phillips calls out.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Egtwx92X ... fullscreen

Just thought of another parallel between that 1979 Furman @ Clemson game and the one upcoming this season. In 1979, it was the opening game on a hot, early afternoon playing against a very good Clemson Team in Coach Sheridan’s 2nd Year, coming off an outstanding debut season.

After losing to Clemson, we lost 4 in a row (PC (NAIA), Chattanooga, ETSU, and Wofford (NAIA)) to open the season at 0-5. While there was no social media at the time, FU Alums & Local Fans in GVL were telling us (Players) that they wanted Coach Sheridan fired after that Wofford loss. Dr. Johns & John West (or was it Dutch Baughman by then?) were too smart for that though. We righted the ship & were a missed XP away from winning out the rest of them...then reeled off 4 straight SoCon Championships under Coach Sheridan.

In the unlikely event that Furman loses to Clemson next Sat., I don’t, by any stretch of my imagination, expect the Paladins to lose the next 4...but the term “Sophomore Slump” came to exist for a reason. My point is...if things don’t look quite as ‘dandy’ at the beginning of this season; keep the faith, Paladin Brothers. This is an outstanding Coaching Staff that is rebuilding an outstanding program. A great foundation was laid in 2017, but there are many bricks yet to be lain.

The Paladins lost 2 games to NAIA teams?

[FUBeAR]

The Paladins lost 2 games to NAIA teams?

Yes sir - I believe we threw 5 INT’s and lost 17-10 to PC in Sirrine Stadium. Then, we lost 27-17 to Wofford up in SparkleCity, at night, playing in some rickety old wooden stadium, IIR. That game wasn’t as close as the score. The AnkleBiters really beat us up physically; much more so than Clemson had 4 weeks prior. As I’ve said more than a few times, I don’t think the ‘watershed moment’ for Furman Football was winning that 1st SoCon Championship in ‘78. I think it was, instead, the Sunday night Team Meeting after that embarrassing beat-down by the PorchYappers.

[apaladin]

One thing that the insider did not mention was Clempson had not scored 40 points on Furman since 1962 until the last game(41).

[apaladin]

One of those highly touted Clempson QB's(Zarrick Cooper) who transferred lost his debut at the FCS level tonight.

[Affirm]

UMass beat Duquesne 63-15. If we end up losing to Clemson by 48, I will not be happy, but I will also not be too surprised.
By the way, UMass is still prominently exhibiting their 1998 National Championship, without saying FCS. (Of course, UMass no longer is FCS.). UMass plays Georgia Southern, Coastal Carolina, Charlotte, and Georgia this year, notable because those 4 are so close to us and so far from Amherst, Massachusetts.

[gofurman]

Not to be too dramatic but this will be the best team Furman has ever played. I am pretty sure we have never played a #1 or #2 FBS team.

They’ve literally done nothing in 2018 to deserve the accolade of “best team Furman has played.”

Good time to remember up until September 1, 2007, everyone thought Michigan was a top 5 team too.

True. But Michigan is in the BIG TEN. LOL. That's a world apart from Southern Speed. It just is. We did well vs MSU recently. MSU conference ? BIG. Coincidence? I think not.

Plus Michigan wasn't quite like Clemson - not in two of last 3 NATIONAL TITLES

More importantly, as FUBeAR attested, it's about DEPTH. And depth on September first is worn down quickly. When did we upset UNC ? OCTOBER. (I know, they had a third or fourth string QB). But Someone once posted some list of our last FBS Scores. The ones played Sept 15th or later were clearly better.

It's a huge advantage to the FBS team to play this game on a hot Southern day in the first week. Just looked. We beat that UNC team on October 30. So heat was no longer a factor. And again, I know that UNC team was hampered but heat is a big part of these games. It can be brutal the first game or three around here

[gofurman]

I’d like to see us move the ball and score at least 2/3 possessions. We’ll struggle to stop them, but if our D can make the Clemson O work for their yards, we can burn clock. Halftime- 31-6.
After a second half TD and FG, Dabo pulls his starters and FU can hang a TD or even two on the second team. Assuming no turnovers, could be a respectable score.
Final: 48-23
Of course, if either teams young QB throws 2+ interceptions, things either get ugly or interesting...

I'd be shocked if we stayed that close or scored 23. I say we lose by 40 or more. Hope to be wrong !!!

The main point is it's really not important what we do v Clemson. It's the LEAST IMPORTANT GAME of the year in a sense . the next week at Elon is much more important and I see as a coin flip. I would love to lose to in week 1 and be 4-1 after Elon Colgate etc. I say after 5 weeks we are either 3-2 or 4-1. 4-1 would be excellent !!!

[The Jackal]

Not to be too dramatic but this will be the best team Furman has ever played. I am pretty sure we have never played a #1 or #2 FBS team.

They’ve literally done nothing in 2018 to deserve the accolade of “best team Furman has played.”

Good time to remember up until September 1, 2007, everyone thought Michigan was a top 5 team too.

True. But Michigan is in the BIG TEN. LOL. That's a world apart from Southern Speed. It just is. We did well vs MSU recently. MSU conference ? BIG. Coincidence? I think not.

Plus Michigan wasn't quite like Clemson - not in two of last 3 NATIONAL TITLES

More importantly, as FUBeAR attested, it's about DEPTH. And depth on September first is worn down quickly. When did we upset UNC ? OCTOBER. (I know, they had a third or fourth string QB). But Someone once posted some list of our last FBS Scores. The ones played Sept 15th or later were clearly better.

It's a huge advantage to the FBS team to play this game on a hot Southern day in the first week. Just looked. We beat that UNC team on October 30. So heat was no longer a factor. And again, I know that UNC team was hampered but heat is a big part of these games. It can be brutal the first game or three around here

In 2007 Michigan was actually a lot like Clemson. They were 11-2 in 2006, losing in the last game of the regular season (No. 1 OSU) and then in the Rose Bowl. They were ranked as high as #2. Had the 2006 Michigan team played in the current era of the college football playoff (like Clemson currently does), they almost certainly would have made the semifinal (like Clemson).

I don't buy "southern speed" by the way. North Dakota State fans have shoved that phrase down everyone's throats for a number of years now.

[gofurman]

Not to be too dramatic but this will be the best team Furman has ever played. I am pretty sure we have never played a #1 or #2 FBS team.

They’ve literally done nothing in 2018 to deserve the accolade of “best team Furman has played.”

Good time to remember up until September 1, 2007, everyone thought Michigan was a top 5 team too.

True. But Michigan is in the BIG TEN. LOL. That's a world apart from Southern Speed. It just is. We did well vs MSU recently. MSU conference ? BIG. Coincidence? I think not.

Plus Michigan wasn't quite like Clemson - not in two of last 3 NATIONAL TITLES

More importantly, as FUBeAR attested, it's about DEPTH. And depth on September first is worn down quickly. When did we upset UNC ? OCTOBER. (I know, they had a third or fourth string QB). But Someone once posted some list of our last FBS Scores. The ones played Sept 15th or later were clearly better.

It's a huge advantage to the FBS team to play this game on a hot Southern day in the first week. Just looked. We beat that UNC team on October 30. So heat was no longer a factor. And again, I know that UNC team was hampered but heat is a big part of these games. It can be brutal the first game or three around here

In 2007 Michigan was actually a lot like Clemson. They were 11-2 in 2006, losing in the last game of the regular season (No. 1 OSU) and then in the Rose Bowl. They were ranked as high as #2. Had the 2006 Michigan team played in the current era of the college football playoff (like Clemson currently does), they almost certainly would have made the semifinal (like Clemson).

I don't buy "southern speed" by the way. North Dakota State fans have shoved that phrase down everyone's throats for a number of years now.

I meant Southern Speed for FBS which is whom we are playing. Bama and Clemson and Bama, Bama and more Bama. Oh, and Auburn. Only OSU has won one otherwise. It's been pretty much only the Southland for a decade in FBS

You are correct in FCS.
Anyway, here's to a good season for Paladins. Stay healthy and I would love to beat Elon. That one worries me as their QB is now a soph and was very good - and the biggest improvement in QB is often FR to SOPH. I really want Elon. Citadel and Woff