Baseball Dropped (Updated)

[FU3]

The touting of utilization of outside consultants for this decision while not seeking input from alumni and donors is hard to understand.

[freebird]

Higher Education is a scam. The Furman degree holds zero weight once you're outside a hundred mile radius of Greenville IMO. $250K of debt for what?? Serious question, for what?? What do you bring to the table that someone that went to FSU for free doesn't?

First sentence is false.
Second sentence is even far more false than the first sentence.
Questions in sentences 3, 4, and 5 all have the same answer; “it all depends upon who the individual(s) is (are).”
Affirm asks THIS question: how many people who could go to FSU for free would have end up with $250,000 debt if they chose to go to Furman instead? Affirm would answer probably none, even Florida residents.

Regardless of where you go to college if you don't major in something that is marketable you are out of luck when it comes to employment. Especially higher income employment.

[Flagman]

I beg to differ with my good friend, Freebird. My son graduated with a degree in English and Philosophy. He marketed his personal analytical skills into a 6-digit income in construction management. He has managed multi-million dollar projects. Most employers want people who had the commitment to complete their education, and are trainable.

[Roundball]

Higher Education is a scam. The Furman degree holds zero weight once you're outside a hundred mile radius of Greenville IMO. $250K of debt for what?? Serious question, for what?? What do you bring to the table that someone that went to FSU for free doesn't?

First sentence is false.
Second sentence is even far more false than the first sentence.
Questions in sentences 3, 4, and 5 all have the same answer; “it all depends upon who the individual(s) is (are).”
Affirm asks THIS question: how many people who could go to FSU for free would have end up with $250,000 debt if they chose to go to Furman instead? Affirm would answer probably none, even Florida residents.

Regardless of where you go to college if you don't major in something that is marketable you are out of luck when it comes to employment. Especially higher income employment.

I disagree. When I hired someone, I didn’t care what they had a degree in. I cared more about their communication skills. I figured I could train them how to be a good banker if they knew how to communicate with others. Being able to speak and write a coherent sentence was most important. That is where the liberal arts degree comes into play. By the way, my son and daughter in law both have degrees in art from Furman. My son also majored in Asian studies. They are doing well in life, not wealthy, but doing what they love. Life is short. Do what you love.

[Furmanoid]

Higher Education is a scam. The Furman degree holds zero weight once you're outside a hundred mile radius of Greenville IMO. $250K of debt for what?? Serious question, for what?? What do you bring to the table that someone that went to FSU for free doesn't?

First sentence is false.
Second sentence is even far more false than the first sentence.
Questions in sentences 3, 4, and 5 all have the same answer; “it all depends upon who the individual(s) is (are).”
Affirm asks THIS question: how many people who could go to FSU for free would have end up with $250,000 debt if they chose to go to Furman instead? Affirm would answer probably none, even Florida residents.

Regardless of where you go to college if you don't major in something that is marketable you are out of luck when it comes to employment. Especially higher income employment.

I disagree. When I hired someone, I didn’t care what they had a degree in. I cared more about their communication skills. I figured I could train them how to be a good banker if they knew how to communicate with others. Being able to speak and write a coherent sentence was most important. That is where the liberal arts degree comes into play. By the way, my son and daughter in law both have degrees in art from Furman. My son also majored in Asian studies. They are doing well in life, not wealthy, but doing what they love. Life is short. Do what you love.

Unfortunately (I think) many, many lines of work unlike banking have very specific degree requirements these days. If you don’t have it you’re screened out before Roundball even finds out you exist. They require degrees that didn’t exist 10 years ago. For instance a kid who wants to go into construction management nowadays would probably be wise to go to Clemson and get a BS in it. My field (which was offered at FU back then) required a specific degree for licensing(another big racket). So the kid with the expensive generalist degree CAN end up in trouble.

I had the same philosophy as you with my kids. My wife thinks everybody should be an engineer, but I’ve encouraged my girl to do what she enjoys. Fortunately she’s doing it somewhere cheaper that still has great grad school connections.

[JohnW]

Though, personally, not a big baseball fan, I root for all Furman sports. I am a Furman fan. A fan of the entire university. I believe it is one of the best schools in the south, if not the country, and certainly the best in SC. From that perspective I hate the loss of baseball, the seeming loss of prestige. It is a PR blow no doubt about it. However, the people that run Furman are not stupid. They knew the backlash this would cause and they did it anyway. That tells me they had no choice. Tuition funds athletics.

And of course everything else. So loss of paying students, loss of revenue, you downsize. What academic program do you cut? Do you close the library a few days a week, fire staff, use TAs instead of full professors, put off needed maintenance? Money's cheap, do you take out a loan? 700 million endowment, which isn't that much in the pond Furman swims in, use that? Raise tuition.....

I don't know the numbers, size of the shortfall, the long term financial outlook for the university. I do know this is a challenging time, an uncertain time. Calls for prudence, wisdom, making tough choices. They made a decision based on the situation now, knowing the numbers, mindful of what they couldn't know about the future, for the good of the entire school. I don't doubt their competence or their integrity. I remain hopeful that baseball will return in the future.

[FGT]

Though, personally, not a big baseball fan, I root for all Furman sports. I am a Furman fan. A fan of the entire university. I believe it is one of the best schools in the south, if not the country, and certainly the best in SC. From that perspective I hate the loss of baseball, the seeming loss of prestige. It is a PR blow no doubt about it. However, the people that run Furman are not stupid. They knew the backlash this would cause and they did it anyway. That tells me they had no choice. Tuition funds athletics.

And of course everything else. So loss of paying students, loss of revenue, you downsize. What academic program do you cut? Do you close the library a few days a week, fire staff, use TAs instead of full professors, put off needed maintenance? Money's cheap, do you take out a loan? 700 million endowment, which isn't that much in the pond Furman swims in, use that? Raise tuition.....

I don't know the numbers, size of the shortfall, the long term financial outlook for the university. I do know this is a challenging time, an uncertain time. Calls for prudence, wisdom, making tough choices. They made a decision based on the situation now, knowing the numbers, mindful of what they couldn't know about the future, for the good of the entire school. I don't doubt their competence or their integrity. I remain hopeful that baseball will return in the future.

Between baseball and lacrosse, Furman will be losing upwards of 90+ male students this fall. If Furman was at 60% female students before this they will be getting closer to 70% female now. I wonder how many schools sponsor scholarship football with a student body at this ratio. Nothing against female students at all but it does bring up an interesting dynamic.

If Furman does not reinstate baseball now they won’t do it in the future. What motivation would there be to spend more money on athletics. Dr. Davis wants to spend less on athletics. Keep in mind this is the first instance in at least 50+ years that a Division 1 university in the South with on campus baseball facilities has dropped the sport. It’s the first Division 1 school in the South to drop baseball since 1993.

Furman’s fiscal management must really be unique for this to happen.

[freebird]

I beg to differ with my good friend, Freebird. My son graduated with a degree in English and Philosophy. He marketed his personal analytical skills into a 6-digit income in construction management. He has managed multi-million dollar projects. Most employers want people who had the commitment to complete their education, and are trainable.

He is one of the exceptions Flagman. I can cite many more to the contrary. Hope you are doing well my friend.

[Affirm]

(deletion)

[Affirm]

(deletion)

[Affirm]

This is just the beginning of a long spiral down in competitiveness at FU. The current leadership has told us where they stand in regards to athletics.

I can assure you that specific events/announcements in the near future will prove you very wrong

We are moving to FBS?

We are building a new basketball arena?

We are starting a sports marketing and management degree program?

Or, is it the second sentence that you refer and perhaps are taking issue with that states "leadership has told us where they stand in regards to athletics", and the specific events/announcement in the near future will actually tell us all where administration stands and include a major news conference and publications to communicate specifically and clearly Furman's 20-year strategic plan in relation to competitiveness in athletics?
Your reply: "I can assure you that specific events/announcements in the near future will prove you very wrong" was very vague and unclear, maybe intentionally.

[MetroMizzy]

Lot to digest here on a Saturday night...Think I’m gonna bow out for a while until someone can find out how much the settlement was for on 5/6/2020.

[Affirm]

Good opinion piece. Touches on the value of a Furman education and baseball. Someone might say the headline is misleading, but here it is anyway. “Say it ain’t so: Cutting baseball at Furman was a bad call.” http://greenvillenewssc.sc.newsmemory.c ... =24c96ba2a

Very appropriate headline. Hits the nail on the head.

The ire from the Furman baseball community is directed squarely at Dr. Davis. She refuses to even allow discussion for a path to reinstatement. That brings into question her intent and motives all along. At this point she is willing to hide behind emails and figure at some point folks will get tired of complaining and all will be forgotten. It’s going to be a while till that happens.

She has stepped on and kicked aside many Furman alumni with this decision. This includes the family of Dr. Plyler who are none too pleased. Think about arguably the most decorated dual sport athlete in school history. Ron Smith raises millions of dollars for that facility. These donors wanted to create a lasting legacy. That has been swept away.

The timing of the decision is terrible for all who support the program. A lot of people would like for her to go on the record and give her vision for the future of Furman athletics. Her directive to the AD went from reducing scholarships by 45 department wide over a 5 year period to doing this and eliminating 2 male sports.

Furman University’s greatest asset is it’s people. Alumni and donors who are key stakeholders should be treated fairly and respectfully. The perfect storm occurred for her. The pandemic and a first year AD who would provide no pushback. Where there is a will there is a way. Dr. Davis has no will for a solution even if presented with a way.

Furman’s people are A great asset. Affirm states emphatically that Furman’s GREATEST asset at present is President Elizabeth Davis. There has been no better president at Furman since at least 27 years ago, in Affirms’s opinion. As a graduate of Baylor University and of Duke University, President Davis has absolutely nothing against highly successful athletics in a very high quality college environment, and she certainly has no lack of knowledge and no lack of desire for having a successful and appropriate athletics program for Furman University. President Davis has performed extremely well, and is continuing to do so, in a very difficult situation. Furman’s people will be A great, perhaps “greatest”, asset by supporting the leadership of President Davis, administration, and Board of Trustees. There is an appropriate level of sympathy for all persons who genuinely have been negatively affected by the decision(s) that is (are) being criticized by certain people. The decisions were necessary. The decision were appropriate.

[The Jackal]

None of us are dummies. I think we are asking for transparency.

Furman administration and board of trustees isn't immune to mistakes. One infrequent poster her told me of the massive mistake hiring Smolla would be and, sure enough, he was correct. You throw in the men's golf decision and you can forgive some of us for asking questions about who is pulling the strings. Those are several embarrassingly bad decisions just in the last handful of years.

[Affirm]

None of us are dummies. I think we are asking for transparency.

Furman administration and board of trustees isn't immune to mistakes. One infrequent poster her told me of the massive mistake hiring Smolla would be and, sure enough, he was correct. You throw in the men's golf decision and you can forgive some of us for asking questions about who is pulling the strings. Those are several embarrassingly bad decisions just in the last handful of years.

The decisions cited occurred in 2010 (Smolla hire) and early 2014. President Davis did not arrive until after both of those and had (has) ample knowledge about both of those. The great majority (possibly all?) of the current Board of Trustees were not Board members when either of those decisions happened, though I expect all of them are knowledgeable about those decisions.
Maybe none of us are “dummies“ (?), but Affirm dares say that most of us, Affirm included, probably are a lot closer to being “dummies” than President Davis, Mr. Donnelly, and all members of the Board of Trustees.
Asking for transparency is fine. Affirm likes transparency..
Affirm also realizes that there are many situations in which excessive transparency is neither required nor wise.