The Unofficial Furman Football Page

They took away NC Stares chance in the cws. Using the tired and ovetr-used “safety and health” excuse they declared Saturdays NCS-Vandy game a no contest even though they allowed NCS to plsy with 13 playes on Fruday. This is another stupid decision since there is no danger to any players. Have to feel for the players, coaches, fans as they were in a position rarely achieved and to have it end this way is a shame.

I hate it for N.C. State. I was pulling for them to win the World Series. However, every team knew the rules. The highlight of the rules was that any player that had been vaccinated was not subject to a random test. It’s the players that had to get the random test that were positive. I understand one of the assistant coaches has been sick for 5 days and 2 of the players are now sick. It is the health of the players that matter more than the games.

The entire NC State Team / traveling party, regardless of vaccination status, was tested before the “No Contest” decision was made by the NCAA (although they seemed, in their announcement, to be assigning some shared responsibility to ‘local authorities’ (which, knowing the sway the NCAA holds, FUBeAR finds highly dubious)).

4 fully vaccinated NC State Players tested positive.

So, if X number of Players testing positive is the reason the NCAA made the decision they made, should the NCAA, out of an abundance of caution and unfailing concern for the safety & and health for all Players, Coaches, and Staff, immediately modify their Championship protocol, test all remaining Teams, and apply the same standard of Play / No Play to those Teams that they applied to NC State’s Team?

The players on every team that had not been vaccinated were subject to random testing every 2 days. The players that had been vaccinated were subject to testing only if they had symptoms. The rules were applied to every team, not just NC State. It does still seem overblown, at least with what we know. It will never happen, but Vandy and the other teams should get together and tell the NCAA to shove it. Tell the NCAA that they will not play another game until NC State is allowed back on the field. If I was a Vandy player, I would always have doubt in my mind that the best team might not have won.

Roundball wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:34 pm

The players on every team that had not been vaccinated were subject to random testing every 2 days. The players that had been vaccinated were subject to testing only if they had symptoms. The rules were applied to every team, not just NC State. It does still seem overblown, at least with what we know.

I don’t believe that is accurate / up-to-date. The protocol was as you’ve described until 2 unvaccinated NC State Players tested positive. Those Players were immediately sent home & 13 vaccinated NC State Players were not allowed to play the next game as a result of contact tracing & their close contact with the other 2 infected (or at least unvaccinated/positive-testing) Players. Following that game, the entire NC State Team, regardless of vaccination/symptom status, was tested with 4 positive results among vaccinated Players. Then, the NCAA decided the Wolfpack was no longer eligible to participate…without also testing all Players from all remaining Teams.

Thus, my question.

If the decision was made to bounce NC State AFTER X number of vaccinated Players tested positive, how is it equitable (y’know everything has to be “equitable” now) that the other remaining Teams’ vaccinated Players were not tested, and for the results of those tests not to have rec’d a “Continue to Play / Go Home Today” judgement from the NCAA?

I don't claim to understand all of the protocols and procedures, but it looks like they tested at least some Vandy players. The Tennessean is reporting that all Vanderbilt baseball players are cleared to play in CWS finals after COVID-19 testing earlier today, citing ESPN's CWS sideline reporter Kris Budden as their source:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/sports ... 356128001/

Refer to your copy of the Silver Linings Playbook, Sports Fans.

If the Series games had played out as scheduled, NCSU might well have been eliminated by Vandy or MSU. But NOW the Pack Backers can swear up & down for Eternity that they were the Team of Destiny in 2021 and would undoubtedly have been crown National Champs had it not been for the stupid protocols.

“COVID example from N.C. State, CWS could impact college football season.” https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/c ... 7eeba.html

Roundball wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:13 am

“COVID example from N.C. State, CWS could impact college football season.” https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/c ... 7eeba.html

Can you summarize?

It seems like the fix is for teams to force everybody to get vaccinated. That SHOULD make the decision-makers happy. But it will likely be harder with football than baseball. It is also a little sketchy to force young, healthy people to get a vaccine that possibly does them more harm than good.

I can’t imagine the logic behind testing vaccinated players. The unvaccinated are still facing that terrifying 0.03 fatality rate, but the vaccinated, even if they get an incredibly rare breakthrough infection have a pretty decent survival chance of 99.9997 or something like that.
The title of this thread is completely accurate. How can a body that represents institutions of higher learning be so addicted to superstition over science?

Furmanoid wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:30 am

How can a body that represents institutions of higher learning be so addicted to superstition over science?

Politics.

You would think that with over 600,000 dead Americans and several million more facing serious long term illness that there wouldn’t be anyone questioning the terrible nature of this disease. Here is a link discussing the risk/ reward in people of all ages. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meeti ... ce-508.pdf
The folks bemoaning possibly requiring vaccination for NCAA athletes must have put up a real fight back in the day when the Gubment forced us in to those damn Polio, Small Pox and TB vaccines. You give those folks like that old Dr. Salk an inch and look what happens.

FU3 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:32 pm

You would think that with over 600,000 dead Americans and several million more facing serious long term illness that there wouldn’t be anyone questioning the terrible nature of this disease. Here is a link discussing the risk/ reward in people of all ages. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meeti ... ce-508.pdf
The folks bemoaning possibly requiring vaccination for NCAA athletes must have put up a real fight back in the day when the Gubment forced us in to those damn Polio, Small Pox and TB vaccines. You give those folks like that old Dr. Salk an inch and look what happens.

Who said it wasn’t a terrible disease?

The only question is whether an athlete has a legitimate reason opt out of the vaccine. The link you posted says that based on modeling (which you can bet is weighted toward encouraging vaccination) if you vaccinate a million 18-24 males you would prevent 3 Covid deaths and cause about 50 cases of myocarditis. Considering that the NCAA athlete population is much, much, much healthier than 18-24 year olds as a whole, the Covid deaths prevented would be much lower than 3 for them. It would likely approach zero. The myocarditis cases might remain about the same. This time last year myocarditis was being considered a death sentence by sports writers and the Big 10. Of course we now know that it is almost always mild. But it can be bad. Personally, I say get vaccinated. Made sure my college daughter did it. But is the benefit clear cut? No, it’s still a little fuzzy as your link shows.

I worry that there may be more hesitancy among football and basketball players, and I’m not sure the data is clear cut enough to tell them they are crazy.

Continuing to test the vaccinated is the more baffling part of the NCAA’s protocol.

You left out the number of hospitalizations and intensive care numbers and those who will have significant number of long term serious symptoms other than the myocardial problems. The data is pretty clear from around the world, the vaccines work to an absolutely remarkable extent. If following the science is the real goal well there it is in in the CDC report.

Ok, I left out the 0.00053 risk of hospitalization and the 0.000127 risk of ICU visits. Those numbers are effectively zero, but in the case of ncaa level athletes they may well BE zero. Are you around kids much? The ncaa athlete kid is not at all normal or representative. About 20% in that age group are obese, meaning high risk from Covid. That is not the case with great athletes (aside from some linemen who should absolutely get vaccinated or get fit). Did anybody talk about the obesity problem? Hell no, not much. To me the biggest crime committed by the CDC during this last year was their refusal to stress the value of fitness in lowering risk with this disease. Instead they discouraged people from staying in shape or getting in shape. The results speak for themselves.

Even so the risk numbers in your link are so incredibly low that there is no way to have confidence in them. But they are at least based on 1 year’s worth of data about risk to that age group. We’ve only been collecting data on myocarditis and other vaccine complications for that age group for 2 or 3 months. So any honest scientist will tell you that the jury is still out (for this unique sub population), and the tiny risk of complications may well turn out to be equal to or higher than the tiny risk from Covid.

You somehow confuse your anecdotal views with scientific fata. I don’t know of any study that broke athletes out from the general student population, if you have one please feel free to share. The CDC numbers show that a two shot vaccine regimen is appropriate for ages 12and above. If you think those facts are ginned up give them a call. To answer your initial question I have coached HS athletics for over 25 years. Saw lots of kids with different pre existing conditions that appear to be more dangerous if they were to squire COVID a number of them who went on to play D1 athletics.I have no idea if this cohort is any less likely to suffer less serious incidents and apparently neither do you. All the available data points to the vaccines as the safest and most effective way to avoid serious outcomes.