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NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:11 am
by Affirm
THIS IS VERY RELEVANT TO FURMAN AND SOCON BASKETBALL (and all sports).
Article by Associated Press, Ralph D. Russo, published today in The State.
March Madness has been a bonanza for the OVC. The league placed 2 teams in the NCAA tournament for the first time in 32 years. Both teams lost their second tournament game. But the big payoff for the conference's 12 schools comes over the next 6 years, a windfall of at least $6.77 million that starts in 2020 with a $1.1 million payment from the NCAA.
Every year, millions are distributed to 32 D-I conferences by the NCAA based on what teams get into the tournament and how far they advance. Last year it was $216 million.
In recent years, the portion going to the 5 most powerful conferences has increased, according to an AP analysis of more than $3 billion distributed from 1997-2018.
For leagues outside the wealthiest, an upset or elusive at-large bid is like winning the lottery.
Already at a huge disadvantage, it is becoming harder for teams in smaller conferences to keep up. Windfalls like the one heading toward the OVC have become even more important to mid-major hoops.
It points to a long-term problem for mid-majors trying to compete as power conferences stockpile wins and at-large invites. It takes revenue to build a program that can compete with the big boys. For those with less, it is becoming harder. It is a vicious cycle.
From 1997-2018, the Big Ten has been paid the most at $340 million, while the SWAC has earned $25 million, nearly the minimum it can earn given that all leagues make money from their teams that qualify automatically.
Since massive realignment among college conferences in 2012-2014, Power Five schools have earned even more under the system of "units", the term used by the NCAA to tally the payouts.
How it works:
Each distribution year is assigned a value for a single unit, which is them applied to bids and most wins earned by conferences over the previous six tournaments.
The Power Five conferences earned 47.5% of NCAA Tournament units from 2002-13. From 2014-18, those same conferences - which also rake in billions from media rights deals, conference networks and postseason football - earned 55.3% of NCAA Tournament units.
With a 12-year, $500 million television contract, and no major college football to support, the Big East is in much better shape than all other conferences outside the Power Five (ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12).
Units earned by the 26 other D-I conferences have fallen from 39.4% from 2002-13 to 36.4% since. The decline tracks with a falling number of at-large bids going to conferences outside the Power Five and Big East.
It's discouraging because the challenges are increasing on a year-to-year basis. The gap in resources between the high majors and everyone else is accelerating at an alarming rate.
The NCAA began its current system in 1991.
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:22 am
by Affirm
"For leagues outside the wealthiest, an upset or elusive at-large bid is like winning the lottery. "
… Hmm … Instead of $50,000,000 for a new arena or $5,000,000 to upgrade Timmons, etc., should we spend such money on buying lottery tickets? Or should we spend such money on improving Furman University in certain other areas instead of in basketball and other athletics?
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:07 am
by tim
Delete
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:33 am
by furpop16
affirm wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:22 am
... Or should we spend such money on improving Furman University in certain other areas instead of in basketball and other athletics?
It's a hard-nosed, legitimate question, demanding an equally dispassionate response.
FU didn't land an NCAA birth this year; nevertheless can anybody say the journey so far hasn't been worth it? Even if the guys come up short again, would it be worth it to continue if only to get to MSG? I'd be willing to wager the answer to both is a resounding "YES!"
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:32 pm
by fufanatic
furpop16 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:33 am
affirm wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:22 am
... Or should we spend such money on improving Furman University in certain other areas instead of in basketball and other athletics?
It's a hard-nosed, legitimate question, demanding an equally dispassionate response.
FU didn't land an NCAA birth this year; nevertheless can anybody say the journey so far hasn't been worth it? Even if the guys come up short again, would it be worth it to continue if only to get to MSG? I'd be willing to wager the answer to both is a resounding "YES!"
Ultimately, where we are at now is light years more fun than where we were a few years ago. But making the NCAAs occasionally or making a run in the NIT would be light years more fun than where we are now. Gotta keep improving and moving forward.
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:38 pm
by Affirm
Another question attempting to align our basketball and football goals and expectations with reality, particularly in light of info in that money article:
“In 2019 and for the next 10 years, what are realistic goals for our basketball and football programs (national-level and conference-level)?
What is realistic?”
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:08 pm
by CharlieFU
I must be missing something. There have been multiple posts with essentially this data--the only new angle is the analysis that the mid majors are getting further behind. Which we kind of knew.
Socon gets DOUBLE this year because Wofford played two games. The real question is how the SoCon uses the money. Previous posts referred to SoCon league taking the FULL share (spread over 6 years) for operational funds in part and for the "basketball improvement fund" in part. If a second share is earned, like this year, my recall is that the league teams share the pot, with Wofford getting a double share.
So yes, having an at large bid for SoCon is HUGE in terms of money, especially since any of one of our teams so rarely plays into the second round or further.
As for realisrtic goals for basketball, we are lighh years ahead of where we were when Niko was first hired 6 years ago. BUT i see no reason we cannot continue to push the envelope--to get to a point we are winning the reg season on occasion and also making the NCAA and/or NIT--how often? I am not sure what is realistic but it sure aint every 39 years! We have been very competitive in SoCon over the last 4 years and we ought to be able to move to next level. I am not asking to be Gonzaga.
What will it take? We need money to continue improvements to Timmons (if not totally renovate it--which is big bucks); more $ for recruiting; more $ to help develop players once they get here; more $ to keep our current head coach and quality assistants. All of that is a high mountain to climb, but Bob Richey has the vision and ability to do it--in my view. And I forgot one more thing--a drastic improvement in the quality of our sports marketing.
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:42 pm
by gman
The numbers I hear are $10,000,000 to renovate Timmons and $5,000,000 for a practice facility. All I need to do is win the big jackpot tonight and it’s done. Seriously, it would be a joy to be able to write a check like that.
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:45 pm
by CharlieFU
gman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:42 pm
The numbers I hear are $10,000,000 to renovate Timmons and $5,000,000 for a practice facility. All I need to do is win the big jackpot tonight and it’s done.
And you would have plenty left over to entertain your friends at your new beach and mountain houses.
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:13 pm
by GOAT
Over the next 10 years I believe it is realistic for the basketball team to finish in the top 4 of the regular season during 6 of those years. During one of the 6 seasons, to also win the tournament and go to the NCAA. 2 years we will finish in the middle of the pack and 2 years we will struggle. And Timmons becomes a great place for basketball games.
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:18 pm
by fufanatic
CharlieFU wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:08 pm
I must be missing something. There have been multiple posts with essentially this data--the only new angle is the analysis that the mid majors are getting further behind. Which we kind of knew.
Socon gets DOUBLE this year because Wofford played two games. The real question is how the SoCon uses the money. Previous posts referred to SoCon league taking the FULL share (spread over 6 years) for operational funds in part and for the "basketball improvement fund" in part. If a second share is earned, like this year, my recall is that the league teams share the pot, with Wofford getting a double share.
So yes, having an at large bid for SoCon is HUGE in terms of money, especially since any of one of our teams so rarely plays into the second round or further.
As for realisrtic goals for basketball, we are lighh years ahead of where we were when Niko was first hired 6 years ago. BUT i see no reason we cannot continue to push the envelope--to get to a point we are winning the reg season on occasion and also making the NCAA and/or NIT--how often? I am not sure what is realistic but it sure aint every 39 years! We have been very competitive in SoCon over the last 4 years and we ought to be able to move to next level. I am not asking to be Gonzaga.
What will it take? We need money to continue improvements to Timmons (if not totally renovate it--which is big bucks); more $ for recruiting; more $ to help develop players once they get here; more $ to keep our current head coach and quality assistants. All of that is a high mountain to climb, but Bob Richey has the vision and ability to do it--in my view. And I forgot one more thing--a drastic improvement in the quality of our sports marketing.
Agreed with all of this. I don't have the magic answer on the NCAAs/NIT question, but a good starting point would be a couple of NITs, a couple NCAAs and a bunch of winning seasons (with maybe some smaller tourney appearances) spread out over 10 years. So since 2015-16, we have 4 winning seasons (out of 4 opportunities), 1 co-regular season title, 2 bids to the CIT and 1 bid to the NIT. I'm sure we could have played in the CIT or CBI last year if we had wanted to pay out the money. So in the next 6 years can we have several (4+?) more winning seasons, an NCAA berth or 2 and another NIT berth or 2? I sure hope so.
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:03 pm
by Affirm
CharlieFU wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:08 pm
I must be missing something. There have been multiple posts with essentially this data--the only new angle is the analysis that the mid majors are getting further behind. Which we kind of knew.
Socon gets DOUBLE this year because Wofford played two games. The real question is how the SoCon uses the money. Previous posts referred to SoCon league taking the FULL share (spread over 6 years) for operational funds in part and for the "basketball improvement fund" in part. If a second share is earned, like this year, my recall is that the league teams share the pot, with Wofford getting a double share.
So yes, having an at large bid for SoCon is HUGE in terms of money, especially since any of one of our teams so rarely plays into the second round or further.
As for realisrtic goals for basketball, we are lighh years ahead of where we were when Niko was first hired 6 years ago. BUT i see no reason we cannot continue to push the envelope--to get to a point we are winning the reg season on occasion and also making the NCAA and/or NIT--how often? I am not sure what is realistic but it sure aint every 39 years! We have been very competitive in SoCon over the last 4 years and we ought to be able to move to next level. I am not asking to be Gonzaga.
What will it take? We need money to continue improvements to Timmons (if not totally renovate it--which is big bucks); more $ for recruiting; more $ to help develop players once they get here; more $ to keep our current head coach and quality assistants. All of that is a high mountain to climb, but Bob Richey has the vision and ability to do it--in my view. And I forgot one more thing--a drastic improvement in the quality of our sports marketing.
How do we attain the $$$$ you say we will need in order to just keep up in the SoCon at the level we want to be?
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:04 pm
by Affirm
fufanatic wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:18 pm
CharlieFU wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:08 pm
I must be missing something. There have been multiple posts with essentially this data--the only new angle is the analysis that the mid majors are getting further behind. Which we kind of knew.
Socon gets DOUBLE this year because Wofford played two games. The real question is how the SoCon uses the money. Previous posts referred to SoCon league taking the FULL share (spread over 6 years) for operational funds in part and for the "basketball improvement fund" in part. If a second share is earned, like this year, my recall is that the league teams share the pot, with Wofford getting a double share.
So yes, having an at large bid for SoCon is HUGE in terms of money, especially since any of one of our teams so rarely plays into the second round or further.
As for realisrtic goals for basketball, we are lighh years ahead of where we were when Niko was first hired 6 years ago. BUT i see no reason we cannot continue to push the envelope--to get to a point we are winning the reg season on occasion and also making the NCAA and/or NIT--how often? I am not sure what is realistic but it sure aint every 39 years! We have been very competitive in SoCon over the last 4 years and we ought to be able to move to next level. I am not asking to be Gonzaga.
What will it take? We need money to continue improvements to Timmons (if not totally renovate it--which is big bucks); more $ for recruiting; more $ to help develop players once they get here; more $ to keep our current head coach and quality assistants. All of that is a high mountain to climb, but Bob Richey has the vision and ability to do it--in my view. And I forgot one more thing--a drastic improvement in the quality of our sports marketing.
Agreed with all of this. I don't have the magic answer on the NCAAs/NIT question, but a good starting point would be a couple of NITs, a couple NCAAs and a bunch of winning seasons (with maybe some smaller tourney appearances) spread out over 10 years. So since 2015-16, we have 4 winning seasons (out of 4 opportunities), 1 co-regular season title, 2 bids to the CIT and 1 bid to the NIT. I'm sure we could have played in the CIT or CBI last year if we had wanted to pay out the money. So in the next 6 years can we have several (4+?) more winning seasons, an NCAA berth or 2 and another NIT berth or 2? I sure hope so.
Asking you this also: what do we need to change to keep pace in the SoCon at the level we want to be?
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:13 pm
by Affirm
affirm wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:03 pm
CharlieFU wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:08 pm
I must be missing something. There have been multiple posts with essentially this data--the only new angle is the analysis that the mid majors are getting further behind. Which we kind of knew.
Socon gets DOUBLE this year because Wofford played two games. The real question is how the SoCon uses the money. Previous posts referred to SoCon league taking the FULL share (spread over 6 years) for operational funds in part and for the "basketball improvement fund" in part. If a second share is earned, like this year, my recall is that the league teams share the pot, with Wofford getting a double share.
So yes, having an at large bid for SoCon is HUGE in terms of money, especially since any of one of our teams so rarely plays into the second round or further.
As for realisrtic goals for basketball, we are lighh years ahead of where we were when Niko was first hired 6 years ago. BUT i see no reason we cannot continue to push the envelope--to get to a point we are winning the reg season on occasion and also making the NCAA and/or NIT--how often? I am not sure what is realistic but it sure aint every 39 years! We have been very competitive in SoCon over the last 4 years and we ought to be able to move to next level. I am not asking to be Gonzaga.
What will it take? We need money to continue improvements to Timmons (if not totally renovate it--which is big bucks); more $ for recruiting; more $ to help develop players once they get here; more $ to keep our current head coach and quality assistants. All of that is a high mountain to climb, but Bob Richey has the vision and ability to do it--in my view. And I forgot one more thing--a drastic improvement in the quality of our sports marketing.
How do we attain the $$$$ you say we will need in order to just keep up in the SoCon at the level we want to be? Dollars from the NCAA are decreasing, per the article.
How are the 9 other SoCon schools going to deal with this? Other than Wofford (which already is well ahead of us in facilities, achievements, NCAA dollars, local and statewide and national publicity, and probably supporters’ donations) and VMI, we are smaller than all the other SoCon schools.
Re: NCAA payouts (men's basketball) - growing gap
PostPosted:Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:17 am
by CharlieFU
I don’t have the answer.