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"The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:09 am
by The Jackal
This is more me just trying to figure out what happened. The refs didn't beat Furman yesterday (though they certainly played a role in the outcome).

Here's the play:




1. Refs initially didn't seem to realize Yates had the ball. Yates comes up with the ball and immediately Furman players appeal to the judge that Yates had intercepted it.

2. Notably, the refs did not blow the play dead. A live ball is "dead" when an official sounds the whistle or otherwise signals the play dead. (Rule 4, Sec. 1, Art. 2.) The play was not whistled dead until the players were on the ground.

3. The play goes under review and the call is "interception." Under rule, that is a "catch of an opponent's pass or fumble." (Rule 2, Art. 3). It is not clear whether the refs are alleging that the Samford player (1) never completed the catch because Yates had possession or (2) Samford player had possession and Yates just stripped him (i.e., fumble). We know Yates came down with the ball before the Samford player was on the ground.

4. At that point, the refs have determined that there is "indisputable video evidence" that the ball was intercepted. Whether a pass is intercepted is a reviewable play. (NCAA Division Football Instant Replay Coaches Manual).

5. You can review forward progress of a ball carrier, but only with respect to the line to gain or goal line. The ball carrier was nowhere near either spot, so honestly, there should never have been a review of "forward progress." Think a ball carrier stretching out the ball to reach the yard marker, that sort of thing. The Samford player was 6 yards or more from the first down line.

6. I can't help but think "forward progress" isn't the right terminology here. You can't review forward progress in that situation, in my opinion. You could potentially review that the ball should have been declared dead, but how do you declare a dead ball on a tackle before the play is complete and where the defender takes possession? I guess that was Hatcher's argument - the ref should have blown the play dead as soon as Yates hit his player.

7. Here's what I have no idea about - once the call on the field is overturned, does that now become the ruling on the field? I see nothing in the rules. Was Hatcher challenging a "ruling on the field" or was he just making more argument about the initial call on the field. Was he charged a "challenge" for re-reviewing the play? I've never seen a ref overturn a call, go over to the other coach, and then be convinced to go look at everything again and then change the call they just changed. Hatcher was still able to utilize a challenge later in the game.

At bottom, I have no idea what the refs thought process was on this. They missed the call on the field. They overturned the call on the field because it was clear they missed it. They then reversed the reversal because, I guess, it was "indisputable" that they missed the reversal of the initial call they claimed was "clearly" wrong and then used as a basis a type of play that cannot be reviewed.

Honestly, if they had just let the call stand we would have all been annoyed and griped about SoCon refs, but the game would have kept moving. What happened yesterday was an embarrassment to the Conference.

I'm interested to know how some of you saw this play out. Not in the "the call didn't go our way so I'm mad" type of argument, but honestly what did you see on this play? Will the SoCon office explain it?

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:13 am
by Furman Sports Report
My thoughts on this embarrassing 13-minute fiasco and more here:
http://www.furmansportsreport.com/2022/ ... ty-in.html

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:21 am
by Bootie
Seemed only two options, if I were the one reviewing the play….

Samford guy obviously didn’t catch the ball, so either we did, or it was incomplete. Apparently first review concluded we got it. There’s no precedent for overturning a completed review. I’d love to hear a socon explanation.

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:52 am
by Sad Din
that head official should never be allowed to referee another game as head ump

He showed lack of control of the game, lack of knowledge of the rules, lack of player safety and was trying to justify every contrversial call (note he turned on the mike several times to explain the call. have never seen this in a game)

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:52 pm
by gofurman
Jackal. I had to watch on TV.

Hearing Mihalic was effing PAINFUL. and I know their family. Taught his daughter! He said there is NO WAY this isn’t ruled for Furman! Bob. DONT EVER MF SAY THAT. NEVER. have you even watched the SoCon and it’s referees?!????? Damn man. Assume nothing. I was fully prepared knowing it wasn’t going to go for us - been watching SoCon too long.

Anyway here Is what the TV announcers said from refs on that play “ first review ruled an INT for Furman. Ok. Then Hatcher gets ref ear and says it’s about the fact their WR didn’t FUMBLE (vs INT). So they looked at his forward progress? Something like that. “. Point is it was an INT , not a Fumble. No one thought it was. But Hatcher supposedly made a pt about fumble ?


I am Just relaying the gist of what TV guys said. I don’t know code section rules

My question - and again we list on three fumbles. Fair and square can’t do that - can you review a play twice? Does the INT change to fumble allow a second review ?

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:19 pm
by AstroDin
Another angle of the play - pretty much confirms what we all believed we saw.

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:32 pm
by gofurman
Doesn’t matter. Didn’t give them 34 points on one call.

Play on. Winning teams win. Isn’t that what coaches and old players say? Winners find ways to win. We didn’t. Next play. Beat Citadel

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:10 pm
by Bootie
gofurman wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:32 pm
Doesn’t matter. Didn’t give them 34 points on one call.

Play on. Winning teams win. Isn’t that what coaches and old players say? Winners find ways to win. We didn’t. Next play. Beat Citadel
It made a huge difference in momentum. Had we gotten the ball and then gone up another score, game would’ve been much different.

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:32 pm
by AstroDin
No t the play - but a damn good play by Jace. I just watched Russell Wilson make a similar pass against the Raiders but was dropped.


Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:39 pm
by gman84
gofurman wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:32 pm
Doesn’t matter. Didn’t give them 34 points on one call.

Play on. Winning teams win. Isn’t that what coaches and old players say? Winners find ways to win. We didn’t. Next play. Beat Citadel
It does matter because these officials not only got it wrong, they made a mockery of the replay process. Their inability to handle the situation should not be tolerated by the SoCon. It’s easy for me to criticize their performance, but this garbage cannot continue! Like I said before, if this is how they handle replay then get rid of it.

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:42 pm
by The Jackal
gman84 wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:39 pm
gofurman wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:32 pm
Doesn’t matter. Didn’t give them 34 points on one call.

Play on. Winning teams win. Isn’t that what coaches and old players say? Winners find ways to win. We didn’t. Next play. Beat Citadel
It does matter because these officials not only got it wrong, they made a mockery of the replay process. Their inability to handle the situation should not be tolerated by the SoCon. It’s easy for me to criticize their performance, but this garbage cannot continue! Like I said before, if this is how they handle replay then get rid of it.

I said in the initial post I wasn't particularly interested in more complaining. I'm interested to know if anyone could figure out what the heck the refs were doing.

I honestly can't even make an argument for them.

A lot of plays, we can quibble about the official's judgment. I can at least figure out what they think they see. I've got no answer for what happened yesterday.

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:20 pm
by apaladin
Just wondering why CCH didn’t pitch a fit like Hatcher.

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:24 pm
by FurmAlum
Jackal I think you just hit the nail on the head. There is no answer.

The Refs let Hatcher intimidate them into doing another review and then let him dictate to them what the call should be. There is no way this should be tolerated by the SoCon leadership.

I bet the SoCon Office has a big "no comment".

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:26 pm
by FurmAlum
The reason Hendrix didn't "pitch a fit like Hatcher" is because he has Class, Dignity, and Self Respect.

Re: "The Play"

PostPosted:Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:53 pm
by gofurman
gman84 wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:39 pm
gofurman wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:32 pm
Doesn’t matter. Didn’t give them 34 points on one call.

Play on. Winning teams win. Isn’t that what coaches and old players say? Winners find ways to win. We didn’t. Next play. Beat Citadel
It does matter because these officials not only got it wrong, they made a mockery of the replay process. Their inability to handle the situation should not be tolerated by the SoCon. It’s easy for me to criticize their performance, but this garbage cannot continue! Like I said before, if this is how they handle replay then get rid of it.
As in real life don’t get rid of something we. . Learn to use it properly. . Should we get rid of computers at work Bc there is that dude who constantly uses Google Sheets wrong? NOOOO.

Teach him to use it right. Or (like the ref) penalize him in some way - dock his pay, sit out two games - and get him on board or let him go. Don’t get rid of the better system bc a few idgets can’t use it right

Replay is a great tool. Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. Unfortunately in SoCon we have to deal w more of this crap