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MERCER
PostPosted:Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:43 pm
by apaladin
Not much to look at since they have played only one real game but they were respectable against #1 Alabama where Furman was not competitive at all against NC State. Below is a stats comparison for the 2 FBS games:
Mercer/Furman
Defense: MERCER/FURMAN
Points: 41/45
1st Downs: 24/25
Tot. yds: 424/505
Pass yds: 266/287
Rush yds: 158/218
Offense: MERCER/FURMAN
Points: 14/7
1st Downs: 13/9
Tot. yds: 216/196
Pass yds: 168/104
Rush yds: 48/92
#1 QB: 9/15 60%/8/19 42%
Mercer wins 9 of 10 of the above stats playing #1 Alabama vs. FU against unranked NC State.
Intangibles:
1. Attitude/Frame of mind: Mercer should be in a great frame of mind after their showing against ‘Bama. Furman has to be down after being completely blown out and not even competitive for a quarter against NCSt.
2. #1 QB- Advantage Mercer.
3. Coaching: Drew Cronic vs. George Quarles- mismatch, HUGE advantage to Mercer.
4. Mercer is better on both sides of the ball. Even though this is just based on the 2 fbs games its hard to argue that Mercer is not the better team.
Conclusion/forecast: Mercer by 3 scores.
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:47 pm
by fu77fan
I am hopeful that we will turn the page on the recent past( primarily the spring), and that we will show against Mercer that we are indeed a good team. I do think we have shown improvement since the spring, but only time will tell. My greatest concern is of course our offense. IMHO, the running game is nowhere near where it needs to be , and our passing game is terribly inconsistent. If we beat Mercer, I will be hopeful moving forward. If we do not, then I am afraid it could be like the spring all over again.
Go Dins
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:46 pm
by gofurman
apaladin wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:43 pm
Not much to look at since they have played only one real game but they were respectable against #1 Alabama where Furman was not competitive at all against NC State. Below is a stats comparison for the 2 FBS games:
Mercer/Furman
Defense: MERCER/FURMAN
Points: 41/45
1st Downs: 24/25
Tot. yds: 424/505
Pass yds: 266/287
Rush yds: 158/218
Offense: MERCER/FURMAN
Points: 14/7
1st Downs: 13/9
Tot. yds: 216/196
Pass yds: 168/104
Rush yds: 48/92
#1 QB: 9/15 60%/8/19 42%
Mercer wins 9 of 10 of the above stats playing #1 Alabama vs. FU against unranked NC State.
Intangibles:
1. Attitude/Frame of mind: Mercer should be in a great frame of mind after their showing against ‘Bama. Furman has to be down after being completely blown out and not even competitive for a quarter against NCSt.
2. #1 QB- Advantage Mercer.
3. Coaching: Drew Cronic vs. George Quarles- mismatch, HUGE advantage to Mercer.
4. Mercer is better on both sides of the ball. Even though this is just based on the 2 fbs games its hard to argue that Mercer is not the better team.
Conclusion/forecast: Mercer by 3 scores.
Sadly. I agree with number 3 on OC
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:47 pm
by gofurman
I think we have more talent so if they beat us AGAIN we have to concede we are getting out coached.
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:59 pm
by FUBeAR
gofurman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:47 pm
I think we have more talent so if they beat us AGAIN we have to concede we are getting out coached.
Nope - 3 primary components - Athletic Talent, Execution, and Coaching - that are all actually intertwined/ interrelated. If you want to get technical - Officiating and, hate to say it, Luck (that spheroid is still oblong…yes?), are 2 other components which can determine the outcome of a single Football game.
Also, even if your proposition was sufficiently accurate, one would have to accept your premise that Furman has more talent than Mercer in order to arrive at the conclusion you are suggesting … IF Mercer happens to win this single Football game.
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:31 pm
by gofurman
FUBeAR wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:59 pm
gofurman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:47 pm
I think we have more talent so if they beat us AGAIN we have to concede we are getting out coached.
Nope - 3 primary components - Athletic Talent, Execution, and Coaching - that are all actually intertwined/ interrelated. If you want to get technical - Officiating and, hate to say it, Luck (that spheroid is still oblong…yes?), are 2 other components which can determine the outcome of a single Football game.
Also, even if your proposition was sufficiently accurate, one would have to accept your premise that Furman has more talent than Mercer in order to arrive at the conclusion you are suggesting … IF Mercer happens to win this single Football game.
FUBeAR. I don’t disagree however I would say that execution and coaching are intertwined. (As you noted). So that puts us back at talent and coaching. Good coaches get their players to execute well. Yes there is some luck/officiating and one game does not a pattern make .. however two games would be the hint of a pattern. Anyway I suspect Furman wins if we can find any semblance of offense.
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:14 pm
by apaladin
gf- check your pm.
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:38 am
by gofurman
apaladin wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:14 pm
gf- check your pm.
done - now check yours
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:03 am
by FUBeAR
gofurman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:31 pm
FUBeAR wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:59 pm
gofurman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:47 pm
I think we have more talent so if they beat us AGAIN we have to concede we are getting out coached.
Nope - 3 primary components - Athletic Talent, Execution, and Coaching - that are all actually intertwined/ interrelated. If you want to get technical - Officiating and, hate to say it, Luck (that spheroid is still oblong…yes?), are 2 other components which can determine the outcome of a single Football game.
Also, even if your proposition was sufficiently accurate, one would have to accept your premise that Furman has more talent than Mercer in order to arrive at the conclusion you are suggesting … IF Mercer happens to win this single Football game.
FUBeAR. I don’t disagree however I would say that execution and coaching are intertwined. (As you noted). So that puts us back at talent and coaching.
Good coaches get their players to execute well. Yes there is some luck/officiating and one game does not a pattern make .. however two games would be the hint of a pattern. Anyway I suspect Furman wins if we can find any semblance of offense.
Another inaccurate premise when applied to the outcome of a single game. Even great Coaches do not always get their Players to execute well. Sure, St. Vincent won 105 games, but 41 of the games he Coached did not end up in the Win column. I doubt he had better Players that failed to execute properly in each of those 41 games. Coach Saban’s Teams have failed to win 66 games he Coached. Sometimes Players fail to execute because they are 18-22 years old and allow themselves to become distracted between the last walk-thru on Friday & kickoff on Saturday. Nope - the 3 completely intertwined primary components of winning a Football game are always intertwined; 1 cannot be separated & dismissed claiming it’s ’covered’ by 1 or both of the other 2.
Head Coaches have multi-year contracts for good reason. Barring a complete meltdown of a program, the body of work over those years determines the quality of the Head Coach & his/her suitability for leading that program at that time.
FUBeAR, wholeheartedly, rejects your conclusion that IF Mercer beats Furman on Saturday, that proves (thus we must “concede”) that the Furman Coaching Staff was/is getting/has been getting out-coached. IF it happens, it will only prove 1 thing (assuming Officiating & Luck is ‘a wash’); that Mercer was a better Football Team than Furman on that day via some intertwined combination of Athletic Talent, Execution, and Coaching.
Your premise is utterly subjective and your conclusion is ludicrous.
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:11 am
by The Jackal
Rational argument has little place here, Bear. It's not hyperbolic enough.
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:09 am
by Flagman
FUBeAR wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:03 am
gofurman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:31 pm
FUBeAR wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 8:59 pm
gofurman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:47 pm
I think we have more talent so if they beat us AGAIN we have to concede we are getting out coached.
Nope - 3 primary components - Athletic Talent, Execution, and Coaching - that are all actually intertwined/ interrelated. If you want to get technical - Officiating and, hate to say it, Luck (that spheroid is still oblong…yes?), are 2 other components which can determine the outcome of a single Football game.
Also, even if your proposition was sufficiently accurate, one would have to accept your premise that Furman has more talent than Mercer in order to arrive at the conclusion you are suggesting … IF Mercer happens to win this single Football game.
FUBeAR. I don’t disagree however I would say that execution and coaching are intertwined. (As you noted). So that puts us back at talent and coaching.
Good coaches get their players to execute well. Yes there is some luck/officiating and one game does not a pattern make .. however two games would be the hint of a pattern. Anyway I suspect Furman wins if we can find any semblance of offense.
Another inaccurate premise when applied to the outcome of a single game. Even great Coaches do not always get their Players to execute well. Sure, St. Vincent won 105 games, but 41 of the games he Coached did not end up in the Win column. I doubt he had better Players that failed to execute properly in each of those 41 games. Coach Saban’s Teams have failed to win 66 games he Coached. Sometimes Players fail to execute because they are 18-22 years old and allow themselves to become distracted between the last walk-thru on Friday & kickoff on Saturday. Nope - the 3 completely intertwined primary components of winning a Football game are always intertwined; 1 cannot be separated & dismissed claiming it’s ’covered’ by 1 or both of the other 2.
Head Coaches have multi-year contracts for good reason. Barring a complete meltdown of a program, the body of work over those years determines the quality of the Head Coach & his/her suitability for leading that program at that time.
FUBeAR, wholeheartedly, rejects your conclusion that IF Mercer beats Furman on Saturday, that proves (thus we must “concede”) that the Furman Coaching Staff was/is getting/has been getting out-coached. IF it happens, it will only prove 1 thing (assuming Officiating & Luck is ‘a wash’); that Mercer was a better Football Team than Furman on that day via some intertwined combination of Athletic Talent, Execution, and Coaching.
Your premise is utterly subjective and your conclusion is ludicrous.
Keep preaching, Bear.
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:19 am
by Davemeister
Sorry FUBear, but your argument is weak because you pulled up short of calling anyone a mo-tard.
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:42 am
by The Jackal
Consider this an open invitation for those posters lurking on this forum (some for years) that see the silliness of this constant wave of negativity posted by a small group of the perpetually dissatisfied on this forum.
There are more folks registered here that have a healthy appreciation for Furman football, our history, where we are, and where we are going. Some were frequent posters that I know still hang around. I'm not asking for a bunch of Comrades in lock step with Big Brother, but this place gets depressing with the few controlling the many.
At this stage in my life, I've grown weary of loudmouths in the minority dictating the enjoyment of the majority. Just because you're miserable don't make me miserable having to listen to you.
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:18 am
by Furmanoid
I don’t see how gofurman said anything all that horrible. Most people would agree that there are two main independent variables (coaching and player quality) that determine the dependent variable: the score. If one group is superior in one of those variables (talent) and still loses, then it is very logical to assume that they are lacking in the other variable. It may be wrong because the assumption of superior talent is wrong, but it isn’t illogical. The weather, refs, Covid etc all have to be assumed to impact both teams equally, otherwise just don’t play.
I’m not sure what to do with the execution argument. Sure players have good days and bad days. That is a huge thing in tennis or golf. But a team is >22 individuals. The good days and bad days of the individuals should cancel each other out unless they were all out at a keg party and that becomes a coaching issue.
If it is actually important to win the conference and stuff like that, then it seems like at some point SOMEBODY has to be accountable. Players or coaches or both. But I’m actually at the point of saying who cares as long as we are at least respectable. Just blame the weather and give me another beer.
Re: MERCER
PostPosted:Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:01 pm
by The Jackal
I think Furman's gotta do whatever they can to get Wynn and Roberto loose.
Roberto looked like a dangerous and punishing runner Saturday given little room. We know Wynn can take over a game. Furman's gotta do whatever it can to get those guys with some space.