Question - inside runs?

[gofurman]

We played great ! (I shouldn't have to preface it but I will) -

One thing I am asking for help understanding: Why couldn't we run up middle except for the one that busted for a long gain. I clearly KNOW the middle runs are there to set up outside runs (like a dive play to set up triple option outside) but most Furman teams get 2/3 yards on inside and then get outside run. We kept getting 1 or even -1 and then getting outside (and we KILLED them on outside.. killed them !). Not sure if it is an OL alignment or was it the Mercer ILB / DL alignment??? thoughts? thanks in advance for helping me here! Were the Mercer guys all hedgin' towards inside? j Some DT/NG thing they did ?

maybe someone who knows a lot more (most of you) can explain why most inside runs were such a big struggle (except the one by Abrams which had beautiful blocking I saw on replay)

[The Jackal]

You seem to already know the answer to the question. You run inside to force the defense to defend it.

The data also does not really support your observations. Abrams has a 69 yard run. Maples has a 66 yard run. Roberto has a 31 yard run. Those three combined have lost a total of 1 yard rushing on 42 attempts.

Not every run play is going to work. Teams have to respect that Furman can and will continue to go back to the middle of the field. They've shown the ability to break big runs from that call.

[The Jackal]

Another note -

Going back and watching Abrams long run, there are a few interesting things.

I had not noticed this originally, but Mercer moves into a type of 4-3 defense against Furman's balanced double wing look. The linebacker placement is sort of standard fare against an option offense, with a deeper MLB and two OLBs close off the DEs.

What's interesting, though, is Mercer brings both interior DLs inside the guards. To me, Mercer is trying to stop the exact play Furman is trying to run - the inside handoff to the fullback.

Now, here is where I think our running game is so dangerous.

The ball is snapped and a hole opens up on the left side, which is where I think the play is supposed to be going. Mercer's MLB sees the hole, sees the handoff and attacks.

Now watch Abrams. He sees everything develop too. He stops his run and cuts back against the grain to a hole on the right side. The linebacker, now committed, can't recover. Abrams is gone.

Actually, had Abrams run through the initial hole, he probably would have run for a while too. Our offensive line just won the line of scrimmage on that play.

[DeepPurple]

We may not make but 1 yard on some inside stuff but it sets up our option game. Having a FB makes you defend inside. Many of our opponents do not use a FB and they sure would rather not have to see one much less defend one.

[gofurman]

You seem to already know the answer to the question. You run inside to force the defense to defend it.

The data also does not really support your observations. Abrams has a 69 yard run. Maples has a 66 yard run. Roberto has a 31 yard run. Those three combined have lost a total of 1 yard rushing on 42 attempts.

Not every run play is going to work. Teams have to respect that Furman can and will continue to go back to the middle of the field. They've shown the ability to break big runs from that call.

I get it - I meant yesterday specifically in my question... Maples didn't play yesterday if I am correct. That's why I asked the question: we ran better inside vs GSU and VT than Mercer. It appears Merer was committed to stopping the inside run in an extreme way

[DeepPurple]

They were but struggled with who takes the QB and who takes the pitch, 410 yards rushing!

[DeepPurple]

Our hybrid offense is special, IMO.

[Jasper]

Another note -

Going back and watching Abrams long run, there are a few interesting things.

I had not noticed this originally, but Mercer moves into a type of 4-3 defense against Furman's balanced double wing look. The linebacker placement is sort of standard fare against an option offense, with a deeper MLB and two OLBs close off the DEs.

What's interesting, though, is Mercer brings both interior DLs inside the guards. To me, Mercer is trying to stop the exact play Furman is trying to run - the inside handoff to the fullback.

Now, here is where I think our running game is so dangerous.

The ball is snapped and a hole opens up on the left side, which is where I think the play is supposed to be going. Mercer's MLB sees the hole, sees the handoff and attacks.

Now watch Abrams. He sees everything develop too. He stops his run and cuts back against the grain to a hole on the right side. The linebacker, now committed, can't recover. Abrams is gone.

Actually, had Abrams run through the initial hole, he probably would have run for a while too. Our offensive line just won the line of scrimmage on that play.

Thank you, Jackal. I thought this was what happened and this confirms it. Kroeber collapses the whole middle and there is a big whole on the left that the LB sees and fills. Devin sees that and hops to the right into that hole and shakes a tackle and is gone. This is simply great execution by the line and the back.
Opponents will be aware of our big runs up the middle for the rest of the year and will be watching for it. That opens up the outside. If we continue to execute like this, we are going places. Our line looks like a Power 5 line right now. Our backs are the best group we have had in a long time.

[AstroDin]

To Jasper's point - I was thinking this watching the game Saturday our outside running ability is a dangerous weapon. We have already broken a lot of big runs outside. Watkins is fast, Wynn can dance and accelerate, Anderson is another burner. Add to that you now have to start changing the way you play and rush Grainger. Grainger has the most rushing touchdowns on the team.

This weekend will give us some more answers -on paper the ETSU defense makes this an interesting matchup.

[gofurman]

To Jasper's point - I was thinking this watching the game Saturday our outside running ability is a dangerous weapon. We have already broken a lot of big runs outside. Watkins is fast, Wynn can dance and accelerate, Anderson is another burner. Add to that you now have to start changing the way you play and rush Grainger. Grainger has the most rushing touchdowns on the team.

This weekend will give us some more answers -on paper the ETSU defense makes this an interesting matchup.

yes, a running QB changes the game. I have always felt you are playing a man short on O if your QB will not run. Though obviously Devlin Hodges, Ingle type guys are nice too !

[The Jackal]

Another note -

Going back and watching Abrams long run, there are a few interesting things.

I had not noticed this originally, but Mercer moves into a type of 4-3 defense against Furman's balanced double wing look. The linebacker placement is sort of standard fare against an option offense, with a deeper MLB and two OLBs close off the DEs.

What's interesting, though, is Mercer brings both interior DLs inside the guards. To me, Mercer is trying to stop the exact play Furman is trying to run - the inside handoff to the fullback.

Now, here is where I think our running game is so dangerous.

The ball is snapped and a hole opens up on the left side, which is where I think the play is supposed to be going. Mercer's MLB sees the hole, sees the handoff and attacks.

Now watch Abrams. He sees everything develop too. He stops his run and cuts back against the grain to a hole on the right side. The linebacker, now committed, can't recover. Abrams is gone.

Actually, had Abrams run through the initial hole, he probably would have run for a while too. Our offensive line just won the line of scrimmage on that play.

Thank you, Jackal. I thought this was what happened and this confirms it. Kroeber collapses the whole middle and there is a big whole on the left that the LB sees and fills. Devin sees that and hops to the right into that hole and shakes a tackle and is gone. This is simply great execution by the line and the back.
Opponents will be aware of our big runs up the middle for the rest of the year and will be watching for it. That opens up the outside. If we continue to execute like this, we are going places. Our line looks like a Power 5 line right now. Our backs are the best group we have had in a long time.

The blocks by the C and LG are notable. Kroeber blocks down and helps double team the DT. Krober "passes" the DT to Jumper and then moves up to the MLB. You can see a lane 3 yards wide on the left side of the offense.

What I also like is the "window dressing" on the play. While this looks like an option play, it isn't. Grainger and Wynn are just carrying out a fake that dupes both the LOLB and the Safety. Because they know Furman can beat them on the edge, those two players have to respect that they'll run the option out that way.

The safety, in particular, bites hard. Abrams is five yards past him before he realizes Grainger doesn't have the ball.

Put another way, Furman takes two defenders completely out of the play just by making it look like they were doing something they weren't.

[The Jackal]

Also, Mercer gives almost an identical look on Watkins long run. Both DTs inside the guards.

Advantage George Quarles. Mercer told Quarles on the Abrams run how they were going to defend this formation. Furman goes back to it and hits an 83 yard touchdown.

So, set it up with the fullback dive. Give the exact same look (different personnel) and hit it to the outside.

Watch the safety again. On the Abrams run, he is attacking the lane to get to the pitchman before the ball is handed off. On Watkins' run, he is waiting to make sure that the FB does not have the ball before attacking the lane (he just got beat on this play a few minutes earlier). That half second delay lets Armstrong get a full head of steam coming around the edge and clears the way for Watkins.

The bugger for defenses is that you can't stack the box against Furman like you can against an option team - we throw it too well.

[MNORM]

To Jasper's point - I was thinking this watching the game Saturday our outside running ability is a dangerous weapon. We have already broken a lot of big runs outside. Watkins is fast, Wynn can dance and accelerate, Anderson is another burner. Add to that you now have to start changing the way you play and rush Grainger. Grainger has the most rushing touchdowns on the team.

This weekend will give us some more answers -on paper the ETSU defense makes this an interesting matchup.

yes, a running QB changes the game. I have always felt you are playing a man short on O if your QB will not run. Though obviously Devlin Hodges, Ingle type guys are nice too !

Not to get this off topic, but Ingle could run...and fairly well.
409 yards and 3 TDs in '04 (including a 58 yarder).
403 yards and 5 TDs in '05 (including an 80 yard TD run against GW).

Grainger is a more natural and elusive runner for sure. This is evident in the cuts and moves he makes to elude defenders in the open field...especially near the End Zone.

[gofurman]

Also, Mercer gives almost an identical look on Watkins long run. Both DTs inside the guards.

Advantage George Quarles. Mercer told Quarles on the Abrams run how they were going to defend this formation. Furman goes back to it and hits an 83 yard touchdown.

So, set it up with the fullback dive. Give the exact same look (different personnel) and hit it to the outside.

Watch the safety again. On the Abrams run, he is attacking the lane to get to the pitchman before the ball is handed off. On Watkins' run, he is waiting to make sure that the FB does not have the ball before attacking the lane (he just got beat on this play a few minutes earlier). That half second delay lets Armstrong get a full head of steam coming around the edge and clears the way for Watkins.

The bugger for defenses is that you can't stack the box against Furman like you can against an option team - we throw it too well.

thanks Jackal ! I appreciate the explanations of what to watch !

[gofurman]

To Jasper's point - I was thinking this watching the game Saturday our outside running ability is a dangerous weapon. We have already broken a lot of big runs outside. Watkins is fast, Wynn can dance and accelerate, Anderson is another burner. Add to that you now have to start changing the way you play and rush Grainger. Grainger has the most rushing touchdowns on the team.

This weekend will give us some more answers -on paper the ETSU defense makes this an interesting matchup.

yes, a running QB changes the game. I have always felt you are playing a man short on O if your QB will not run. Though obviously Devlin Hodges, Ingle type guys are nice too !

Not to get this off topic, but Ingle could run...and fairly well.
409 yards and 3 TDs in '04 (including a 58 yarder).
403 yards and 5 TDs in '05 (including an 80 yard TD run against GW).

Grainger is a more natural and elusive runner for sure. This is evident in the cuts and moves he makes to elude defenders in the open field...especially near the End Zone.

you are right - I always thought he was an AMAZING athlete. I mean he was NFL borderline QB and he was all-conference punter and I noticed often what you said... when he took off guys would miss as they misjudged the angle based on speed