2020 Schedule

[Affirm]

Interesting how perspectives and dynamics change over time. Thirty years ago we played basketball downtown in a 6,000-seat facility that averaged 40-45 percent occupancy when the Paladins stepped on the court (late 80s attendance averages). We build Timmons with 5,500 seats and over time slash the basketball capacity to 2,500 that, in the few times it’s been filled, sends some folks into bare-chest thumping mode. Now apply that same perspective to football. Thirty years ago we averaged 11,000-12,000 per game in a 16,000-seat stadium. If we slashed capacity to 7,500 (rough equivalent of GMA to Timmons capacity cut), how would that look with our 6,500-7,000 crowds? Bottom line is PS and its 12,900 capacity (expanded to 16,000 seats) was built for a different time, which is gone, just as was the GMA era. There is a reason Elon, with twice as many students, has a football stadium capacity of approximately 10,000. Richmond with a bigger student body has a 9,000-seat stadium. Samford with twice as many students as FU plays in a 5,500 seat stadium. Expectations for football need to recalibrated to the times.

And to the resident Pioneer League advocate...that is not the answer.

100% accurate you are.

But (and you knew there would be one. lol)

Football, just like everything else in the world, is simply in the midst of "survival of the fittest".
There will be winners and losers.

Declaring football in the decline because we've had low numbers is wrongfully placing us at the center of the universe.
The reality is that we fell off the edge because of inaction in promotion and investment.
We "rested on our laurels" when we had a "captured audience" whose alternate choices for entertainment
was limited to 3 TV stations that featured fishing, bowling for dollars, bingo and gospel music bands on the
weekend.
Soon came cable TV, video games, home computers and smartphones.
And those things proved to be more "fit" than rundown stadiums with seats smaller than the average person's butt.

Winning more games will not change these things.
Other "moves" will have to happen.

In college football there will simply be 3 things :
1. winners
2. losers
3. Whiners (people who don't do a damn thing about being losers)


Here are the FCS and D2 winners

You said “other ‘moves’ will have to happen”. So, what do you believe those moves are? And what is needed to make those move possible? If your answer is $$, specify how those $$ can realistically be acquired? Or, are you saying it is already too late because of “inaction while resting on laurels”, and in that case what should we do, in your opinion? You did state that you consider Pioneer League to be not the answer, not even considering it. You said whiners” are people who don’t do anything at all about being losers. Perhaps you are just saying we are winners sometimes and losers sometimes and everyone should just live with what is, considering ourselves always to be winners regardless. OK, I can understand that point of view, and maybe I will adopt that point of view myself.

[sluggo]

You said “other ‘moves’ will have to happen”. So, what do you believe those moves are? And what is needed to make those move possible? If your answer is $$, specify how those $$ can realistically be acquired? Or, are you saying it is already too late because of “inaction while resting on laurels”, and n that case what should we do, in your opinion?

Options of what to do are easy to choose; where the money comes from is harder.
The home schedule is what it's all about, How to make it better is the problem.
Which teams have good travel crowds and will bring out more Furman fans because it's a good game and can we pay them enough?

I'm just a fan so I can't even guess at budgets or which teams travel best, I can only point to basic obvious changes that would help.

What's obvious to me is that a SoCon home schedule is not pulling big crowds.

[gofurman]

Based on the data above it seems games with SC State would give a bump to attendance and be a good in-state game too... SC State averages 8K attendance in a bad year.. 9K last year - the key there is so does Mercer but I bet SC State would travel a lot better than Mercer as they are closer and have fans that already live here

[apaladin]

Based on the data above it seems games with SC State would give a bump to attendance and be a good in-state game too... SC State averages 8K attendance in a bad year.. 9K last year - the key there is so does Mercer but I bet SC State would travel a lot better than Mercer as they are closer and have fans that already live here

GF-With all due respect I think you are dreaming of the SCS of 20 years ago. Like most teams their attendance is way down. They no longer travel well and struggle at home with attendance as most do these days. 5 years ago we played them in Orangeburg and attendance was barely 9,600. SCS would not help attendance wise and really who would?

[apaladin]

I wonder when the last time we pulled a Citadel, and had more home games than away games?

fanatic-To answer your question the last time was 2010. The next time we will have 6 home games vs. 5 away will be 2021 when we have home games with Colgate and NC A&T plus 4 SoCon games.

[The Jackal]

I think you also have to recognize that everyone's attendance was hurt by the departure of App State and GSU. Those were two big fan bases that traveled well (GSU more than App).

When you go back and look at historic numbers, Furman is drawing now roughly what they would draw against non-GSU/App teams 20 years ago. There's a slight dip, but most of the attendance drop off (IMO) is due to losing at least one big home game a year against a team that would bring 1500-2000 fans.

Interestingly, Georgia Southern had 6 home games this year - 3 of them drew fewer than 12k. The drag in attendance is not just a Furman problem.

[sluggo]

I think you also have to recognize that everyone's attendance was hurt by the departure of App State and GSU. Those were two big fan bases that traveled well (GSU more than App).

When you go back and look at historic numbers, Furman is drawing now roughly what they would draw against non-GSU/App teams 20 years ago. There's a slight dip, but most of the attendance drop off (IMO) is due to losing at least one big home game a year against a team that would bring 1500-2000 fans.

Interestingly, Georgia Southern had 6 home games this year - 3 of them drew fewer than 12k. The drag in attendance is not just a Furman problem.

Speaking of App State, any fan of App State/1AA/FSC/SoCon will love this 30 second part of this video :
Talk about foot in mouth!

[Jasper]

Thank you for posting that. It was great to see it again. Man, that Edwards kid was some QB.

[Affirm]

You said “other ‘moves’ will have to happen”. So, what do you believe those moves are? And what is needed to make those move possible? If your answer is $$, specify how those $$ can realistically be acquired? Or, are you saying it is already too late because of “inaction while resting on laurels”, and n that case what should we do, in your opinion?

Options of what to do are easy to choose; where the money comes from is harder.
The home schedule is what it's all about, How to make it better is the problem.
Which teams have good travel crowds and will bring out more Furman fans because it's a good game and can we pay them enough?

I'm just a fan so I can't even guess at budgets or which teams travel best, I can only point to basic obvious changes that would help.

What's obvious to me is that a SoCon home schedule is not pulling big crowds.

******** I now edit this again, 1/3/2020, 1:30 PM, now that the 2020 schedule has been announced. The present edit is to say that I stand by my strategy as stated here (below) for the future. The 2020 schedule is what it is, and I of course accept it. At the earliest possible time in the future, my strategy stated below should be applied to Furman football OOC scheduling as a good way to increase interest and increase attendance. *********
If this is about schedules, then I would say let’s be OK with only 5 home games in any year, 1 of which is “an attractive /known” FCS OOC.
For the 6-7 away games, have 1-2 FCS, 4 SoCon, and 1 “FCS OOC.
As “attractive /known” FCS OOC, I would give these as examples:
Richmond
W&M
Delaware
Colgate
Bucknell
Lehigh
Lafayette
James Madison
Duquesne
Georgetown
Howard
Rhode Island
Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Fordham
Indiana State
Southern Illinois
Harvard
Yale
Columbia
Cornell
Brown
SC State
Princeton
Penn
Dartmouth
NC Central
NC A&T
Eastern Kentucky
Missouri State
SE Missouri
Kennesaw State
Tennessee Tech
Austin Peay
Jacksonville State
Sam Houston State
Stephen F Austin
Houston Baptist
Southeastern Louisiana
... making sure to include the eastern and northeastern FCS OOC schools at least as much as the southern FCS OOC schools.

[apaladin]

affirm I think you mean 1 FBS. On your list you can eliminate Colgate, NC A&T and William & Mary as they are alreasy on future scedules.

[FurmAlum]

Enjoyed the App St-Mich replay Sluggo.

[fufanatic]

You said “other ‘moves’ will have to happen”. So, what do you believe those moves are? And what is needed to make those move possible? If your answer is $$, specify how those $$ can realistically be acquired? Or, are you saying it is already too late because of “inaction while resting on laurels”, and n that case what should we do, in your opinion?

Options of what to do are easy to choose; where the money comes from is harder.
The home schedule is what it's all about, How to make it better is the problem.
Which teams have good travel crowds and will bring out more Furman fans because it's a good game and can we pay them enough?

I'm just a fan so I can't even guess at budgets or which teams travel best, I can only point to basic obvious changes that would help.

What's obvious to me is that a SoCon home schedule is not pulling big crowds.

If this is about schedules, then I would say let’s be OK with only 5 home games in any year, 1 of which is “an attractive /known” FCS OOC.
For the 6-7 away games, have 1-2 FCS, 4 SoCon, and 1 “FCS OOC.
As “attractive /known” FCS OOC, I would give these as examples:
Richmond
W&M
Delaware
Colgate
Bucknell
Lehigh
Lafayette
James Madison
Duquesne
Georgetown
Rhode Island
Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Fordham
Indiana State
Harvard
Yale
Columbia
Cornell
Brown
SC State
Princeton
Penn
Dartmouth
NC Central
NC A&T
Eastern Kentucky
Missouri State
SE Missouri
Kennesaw State
Tennessee Tech
Austin Peay
Jacksonville State
... making sure to include the eastern and northeastern FCS OOC schools at least as much as the southern FCS OOC schools.

We've had this disagreement before and I hesitate to bring it up again because ultimately we agree on who would be interesting home opponents as a Furman fan. But I disagree strongly that most on that list would get any rise out of local fans. I think to get the average college football fan in the Greenville area interested in coming to Paladin Stadium because of the opponent it would basically start and end with North Dakota State. Maybe James Madison. Maybe a few of the most well-known Ivy League schools. That's probably it. A few more peeps would trickle out if it was a top 10 FCS team, but I don't think the name matters in that scenario. Now if we are talking strictly who would be a good non-conference home opponent, I would be fine with many of those choices. Thankfully, the AD is making some of them happen. Colgate, NC A&T, William & Mary are all really strong non-conference foes. Hopefully we will continue to figure out how to do more match-ups like that.

[Affirm]

You said “other ‘moves’ will have to happen”. So, what do you believe those moves are? And what is needed to make those move possible? If your answer is $$, specify how those $$ can realistically be acquired? Or, are you saying it is already too late because of “inaction while resting on laurels”, and n that case what should we do, in your opinion?

Options of what to do are easy to choose; where the money comes from is harder.
The home schedule is what it's all about, How to make it better is the problem.
Which teams have good travel crowds and will bring out more Furman fans because it's a good game and can we pay them enough?

I'm just a fan so I can't even guess at budgets or which teams travel best, I can only point to basic obvious changes that would help.

What's obvious to me is that a SoCon home schedule is not pulling big crowds.

If this is about schedules, then I would say let’s be OK with only 5 home games in any year, 1 of which is “an attractive /known” FCS OOC.
For the 6-7 away games, have 1-2 FCS, 4 SoCon, and 1 “FCS OOC.
As “attractive /known” FCS OOC, I would give these as examples:
Richmond
W&M
Delaware
Colgate
Bucknell
Lehigh
Lafayette
Robert Morris
Holy Cross
James Madison
Duquesne
Georgetown
Rhode Island
Maine
New Hampshire
Albany
Fordham
Indiana State
Harvard
Yale
Columbia
Cornell
Brown
SC State
Princeton
Penn
Dartmouth
NC Central
NC A&T
Eastern Kentucky
Missouri State
SE Missouri
Kennesaw State
Tennessee Tech
Austin Peay
Jacksonville State
Stephen F Austin
Sam Houston State
Southeastern Louisiana

... making sure to include the eastern and northeastern FCS OOC schools at least as much as the southern FCS OOC schools.

We've had this disagreement before and I hesitate to bring it up again because ultimately we agree on who would be interesting home opponents as a Furman fan. But I disagree strongly that most on that list would get any rise out of local fans. I think to get the average college football fan in the Greenville area interested in coming to Paladin Stadium because of the opponent it would basically start and end with North Dakota State. Maybe James Madison. Maybe a few of the most well-known Ivy League schools. That's probably it. A few more peeps would trickle out if it was a top 10 FCS team, but I don't think the name matters in that scenario. Now if we are talking strictly who would be a good non-conference home opponent, I would be fine with many of those choices. Thankfully, the AD is making some of them happen. Colgate, NC A&T, William & Mary are all really strong non-conference foes. Hopefully we will continue to figure out how to do more match-ups like that.

If we disagree, it is not huge and can be overcome. If teams like the ones on your list and mine will not help “the problem” (our schedule being the problem, per the previous writer), then there is probably no solution. The solution is not to just stick only with the convenient Big South teams, in my opinion. I do think that the schools like I listed, even when we have to play only 5 homes games per year, will add interest more than just staying with the Gardner-Webb, Campbell, Charleston Southern type schools, and definitely much more than scheduling teams like Point, Newberry, Mars Hill, Catawba, Benedict, Allen, Limestone, Erskine, and so forth.

[dornb]

Thank you for posting that. It was great to see it again. Man, that Edwards kid was some QB.

I taught this great kid in middle school. He was a star in both football and basketball, as well as being a great kid in the classroom.

[gofurman]

I think you also have to recognize that everyone's attendance was hurt by the departure of App State and GSU. Those were two big fan bases that traveled well (GSU more than App).

When you go back and look at historic numbers, Furman is drawing now roughly what they would draw against non-GSU/App teams 20 years ago. There's a slight dip, but most of the attendance drop off (IMO) is due to losing at least one big home game a year against a team that would bring 1500-2000 fans.

Interestingly, Georgia Southern had 6 home games this year - 3 of them drew fewer than 12k. The drag in attendance is not just a Furman problem.

Speaking of App State, any fan of App State/1AA/FSC/SoCon will love this 30 second part of this video :
Talk about foot in mouth!

cool stuff. however, that isn't even CLOSE to being the biggest upset in college football. NOT CLOSE. I think App was a 27 point underdog? Cam Newton's brother led his team to a win in a much much bigger upset just a year or three ago as a 40+ point underdog in Vegas. Not sure why people call teh App Michigan the biggest upset ever. Vegas had a list and App was about 10th.. Not. Even. CLose.

" Cam Newton's brother leads Howard to biggest upset in college football history
Caylin Newton helped Howard, a 45-point underdog, stun UNLV "

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... l-history/


BIGGEST UPSET in CFB History!
Howard +45 beats UNLV
$100 on outright win pays $55,000!!


What's odd is more people know about App beating Michigan than Howard beating UNLV. People just don't pay attention to what is really going on.. Heck, many people figured the defending FCS Champ could push a Big ten team. Furman lost to the great Michigan State by a whopping 12 points or so a few years back and that was Not a good Furman team.