Fair Pay to Play Act

[FUPlayer74]

Sure the OL's in the NFL get paid well, based upon their value to the team. But show me an OL at Clemson or Alabama who has a remote chance to get the T-shirt deal that Trevor or Tua can get.

[gofurman]

It's better to embrace reality than to get run over by it.
Sooner or later it's going to happen anyway; it's just a matter of who will change last.

Why be last?

you have a point sluggo. If something is gonna happen embrace it the best you can whether you like it or not. We got caught behind the 8 ball once w facilities and recruiting -a few years back; let's not get behind again

[FUPlayer74]

GF give us what you suggest we do in embracing this change. What do you recommend Furman do so we're not "left behind the 8 ball"?

[gofurman]

It's better to embrace reality than to get run over by it.
Sooner or later it's going to happen anyway; it's just a matter of who will change last.

Why be last?

you have a point sluggo. If something is gonna happen embrace it the best you can whether you like it or not. We got caught behind the 8 ball once w facilities and recruiting -a few years back; let's not get behind again

GF give us what you suggest we do in embracing this change. What do you recommend Furman do so we're not "left behind the 8 ball"?

---------------------------
Now, hmm... Why ask me and NOT sluggo? Sluggo gave the EXACT SAME response first - SIX HOURS before I agreed with him. Yet you never address sluggo? Answer why you did that and then we might can discuss the issue once we get by an obvious bias here.

No rational discussion can take place when such an obvious bias is in place prior. You need to ask me AND sluggo. then we might can discuss in an unbiased rational manner; which I am happy to do !

I love an unbiased back and forth with educated people - and you are very bright and know your stuff 74!

[FUPlayer74]

I am not picking on you, just asking a simple question if you have any suggestions as to what Furman should do. Sluggo or anyone else, chime in.

[gofurman]

I am not picking on you, just asking a simple question if you have any suggestions as to what Furman should do. Sluggo or anyone else, chime in.

Fair enough. This will sound simplistic but very first step is just organize the right people (CH, the AD, etc) to begin having formal talks about how to address it. Go ahead and get some thoughts on the table well in advance. I admit that's rather vague but it is better than just letting it go for a year or so as we all know 'indecision is a decision'. Have a plan if the direction of pay for play goes this way we do X and if it goes this way we do Y and if this way we do Z.

I know that isn't an answer yet but I am not sure you can do more at this stage. I admit I haven't read all the articles in full. I do know the plan faces some opposition so I ma just saying at end of season start meeting to have a plan going forward. Just don't want to look back in 3 years and wonder why we didn't at least start the discussion in 2019/2020... What are your thoughts? Thanks !!!

[sluggo]

I am not picking on you, just asking a simple question if you have any suggestions as to what Furman should do. Sluggo or anyone else, chime in.

Furman could stop writing the scholarship check to themselves and write 1/2 of it to the player for "food and housing".

We should stop pretending. Nobody pays someone $Millions to coach amateurs.

Stop "moralizing" about how pay ruins the players.
These are antiquated morals that were formed when head coaches were paid less than professors and no TV contract or ESPN.

Morals have changed!
People don't tell their daughter not to have sex on the first date anymore; they just pray that
she doesn't upload the video to Snap Chat because she wants to be Kim Kardashian II.


The players are the cash cow in a money making system that they had no say in creating.
The players didn't sign TV deals or build massive stadiums that earn millions.
The players didn't make college football a job; the universities did.
The players didn't put the cash incentives into the game; they are just the only ones left out of pay.
The players watch every other person involved in college football walk home with a fat check off of their hard labor.

College football players are laborers and entertainers for the rich elite who "admissions scandal" their kids into
school so they can get drunk all day and watch athletes sweat for their education.

A significant percentage of these athletes are coming from low income families and after they graduate with a broken
leg and a chipped tooth in the front of their mouth that they can't afford to fix; they wind up working retail at Walmart. They face lack of corporate jobs and Tech-school level jobs turn them down for being "over qualified".

Football players are leaving college with and broken teeth, broken legs and broken wallets while looking at the glorious head coach on TV flashing his millions.

We can deny reality for a very long time; but when billions are made from free labor it will eventually become a
civil rights issue that will make it's way through the courts.

The arguments against paying players sounds exactly like the "down playing" of slavery arguments that laud the free room/board and education in agriculture.

The "slippery slope" here is the continuance of the status quo.

For those who says nobody in FCS will make any money from endorsements :
I'd be happy to get a check for the jersey sales of #66 when I played.
Somebody made a lot of money off me and Standford Jennings.

[Bootie]

I am not picking on you, just asking a simple question if you have any suggestions as to what Furman should do. Sluggo or anyone else, chime in.

Furman could stop writing the scholarship check to themselves and write 1/2 of it to the player for "food and housing".

We should stop pretending. Nobody pays someone $Millions to coach amateurs.

Stop "moralizing" about how pay ruins the players.
These are antiquated morals that were formed when head coaches were paid less than professors and no TV contract or ESPN.

Morals have changed!
People don't tell their daughter not to have sex on the first date anymore; they just pray that
she doesn't upload the video to Snap Chat because she wants to be Kim Kardashian II.


The players are the cash cow in a money making system that they had no say in creating.
The players didn't sign TV deals or build massive stadiums that earn millions.
The players didn't make college football a job; the universities did.
The players didn't put the cash incentives into the game; they are just the only ones left out of pay.
The players watch every other person involved in college football walk home with a fat check off of their hard labor.

College football players are laborers and entertainers for the rich elite who "admissions scandal" their kids into
school so they can get drunk all day and watch athletes sweat for their education.

A significant percentage of these athletes are coming from low income families and after they graduate with a broken
leg and a chipped tooth in the front of their mouth that they can't afford to fix; they wind up working retail at Walmart. They face lack of corporate jobs and Tech-school level jobs turn them down for being "over qualified".

Football players are leaving college with and broken teeth, broken legs and broken wallets while looking at the glorious head coach on TV flashing his millions.

We can deny reality for a very long time; but when billions are made from free labor it will eventually become a
civil rights issue that will make it's way through the courts.

The arguments against paying players sounds exactly like the "down playing" of slavery arguments that laud the free room/board and education in agriculture.

The "slippery slope" here is the continuance of the status quo.

For those who says nobody in FCS will make any money from endorsements :
I'd be happy to get a check for the jersey sales of #66 when I played.
Somebody made a lot of money off me and Standford Jennings.

Sluggo your post has some good points. I'm more on the anti-pay side of things as obviously noted in this thread, but I'm open to these points. However, I do have some counterpoints and welcome their discussion or dismantling

1. The scholarship obviously has value. So why isn't that enough "pay"? A free or very discounted college education today is worth a lot. A coach making $3 million is the same as 80 players with a $37,500 scholarship each. As for players who are walk-ons or non-scholly, see point #2.

2. No one forces anyone to play sports. As much as I don't think it's fair for the NCAA to accumulate such piles of money off the players and give them nothing in return, the players know the deal going in. They know the NCAA is in control and makes money off of them. They know full well that most players don't move onto the pros and that injuries happen. They know all of this, yet they continue to pile in by the thousands every year. It's hard for me to have much sympathy for someone who freely puts themself in this situation.

3. I could get on board with a program where perhaps the NCAA shares a large pool of its bag of money each year to EVERY player in EQUAL amounts. That seems fair to me. Not sure if that would be a significant number in the end or not.

4. I think there's a free-market solution to everything. Perhaps the NAIA or new league makes their rules differently, allowing players to be compensated by their earnings/value, and then players might begin to choose those schools instead NCAA schools, or the NCAA might change their own rules to compete.

[aqualung]

1. Allow students to move off campus again.
2. Give the players their "dorm money" to live off campus. Probably triple what it was 30 + years ago....
3. Hello Hoodwinds and The Lost Colony......

The Lost Colony was a special place

[Davemeister]

If we elect a certain Presidential candidate next year, there will be "pay for everyone", including the spectators. That might fill up Paladin Stadium.

Problem solved.

[FUpaladin08]

2. No one forces anyone to play sports. As much as I don't think it's fair for the NCAA to accumulate such piles of money off the players and give them nothing in return, the players know the deal going in. They know the NCAA is in control and makes money off of them. They know full well that most players don't move onto the pros and that injuries happen. They know all of this, yet they continue to pile in by the thousands every year. It's hard for me to have much sympathy for someone who freely puts themself in this situation.

4. I think there's a free-market solution to everything. Perhaps the NAIA or new league makes their rules differently, allowing players to be compensated by their earnings/value, and then players might begin to choose those schools instead NCAA schools, or the NCAA might change their own rules to compete.

Correct, nobody is forced to play NCAA, but what is the alternative if you you intend to go pro? A player cannot go pro from high school in football or basketball. You say it right there, a new league is needed with new rules. However, the NCAA and pro sports are so closely tied it makes it very difficult for a free market solution.

I’d say the NCAA works well for the majority of athletes, especially the ones not going pro. These folks get a free education and play the sport they love. It’s the kids only going to school as the avenue to pro sports that are screwed. They aren’t getting an education, they don’t finish their degrees, they are in school until they can go pro. These are the kids that will be getting sponsored. I see no reason not to use the Olympic-model and allow them to be sponsored. The IOC had to evolve and the NCAA will have to unless they want to lose these very profitable athletes to a competing organization willing to pay those cash cows.

[Bootie]

Randomly came across this article on my feed today. Good stuff by Dabo...

https://www.latimes.com/sports/story/20 ... ng-players

A segment:
A basis for his vision is that the moment the enticement of extra money is introduced, his players will lose incentive to care as much about getting their degree. That could be read as insulting to them, or just as a coach knowing his players and the temptations they face, the backgrounds they’ve escaped.

“See, the people who are on that side, they don’t want to value education,” Swinney says. “Everybody acts like that’s free. I mean, it’s $40-to-50,000 a year to go to Clemson. And that’s real money. That’s not like, you know, Monopoly, Candy Land, it’s real money that’s being paid. They’re being paid well, and I break that down with my guys every year.

“There’s a lot of kids walking off this campus in debt. I walked out of college with debt. I wish I had a scholarship the whole time. I didn’t. And it took me 10 years to pay that back.”

Swinney says he is all for “modernizing the scholarship.” He loves the stipend for full cost of attendance and that programs are now allowed to feed the players as much food as they want. He wishes they could pay for the parents to travel to games. He’s open to a certain amount of money going into an annuity tied to each player’s graduation.

“See, nobody ever writes any of this,” he says. “They say, ‘He’s against the player.’ Give me a break! I’m for the player! Tie everything to graduation, so you have the student-athlete in the collegiate model.

“The collegiate model is a beautiful thing. And it’s been a great thing. The scholarship for a long time was archaic, and it needed to be changed and addressed. Nobody wants to acknowledge that. Right? Because that doesn’t fit the story. You know, they’re supposed to be starving. These guys ain’t starving. These guys got money. They got cars, they got tattoos, because they’ve got money. It’s a different situation than when I was in school.”

Swinney’s doomsday scenario, the one that he says would send him packing, goes like this: College football players are paid a salary. They are employees, which means they have to pay taxes on their earnings like any other student would.

“Let’s scrap the whole college model,” he says. “The average income in America is $43,000. Let’s pay them 100 grand. We can do that. But they gotta pay for college, like normal people, right? You’re 18 years old, you get 100 grand, you pay for your apartment, you pay for your cable, you pay for your food, you pay for your medical, you get insurance, you pay for your books, fees, and you pay for your tutor. You could be fired too. How would that work? How would that go over? That would be a train wreck.”

[apaladin]

I didn't realize the California bill prohibits schools from paying athletes directly but I think the D***A** from SC that proposed his bill wants schools to pay athletes directly.