Colgate (“Furman self-selected peer”) may lose Coach Matt Langel to Notre Dame

[Affirm]

FUBeAR’s great list of 102 D-1schools that do not have football supports or at least illustrates my point about it being easier for a school to have high-level basketball when they do not have football. About 17 of the schools in the present NCAA Tournament are in that list of 102; and about 6 of the schools are in the present NIT. I think all of the 17 + 6 = 23 schools have been in the NCAA Tournament since the last time Furman was; and numerous others of the 102 have bee in the NCAA since the last time Furman was. A school can have great basketball without football. There are many that do. Thanks FUBeAR.

[Affirm]

I agree to remove mention of St. Mary's football history, but I will not remove mention of St. Mary's ability to avoid the expense of money, energy, and attention on football.

Anything worthwhile usually requires some effort.

Effort utilizes resources.
Resources are not unlimited, not even at Alabama, etc.

[FUBeAR]

FUBeAR’s great list of 102 D-1schools that do not have football supports or at least illustrates my point about it being easier for a school to have high-level basketball when they do not have football. About 17 of the schools in the present NCAA Tournament are in that list of 102; and about 6 of the schools are in the present NIT. I think all of the 17 + 6 = 23 schools have been in the NCAA Tournament since the last time Furman was; and numerous others of the 102 have bee in the NCAA since the last time Furman was. A school can have great basketball without football. There are many that do. Thanks FUBeAR.

Yessir - An optimist would certainly see that glass as 16.67% full.

[FUBeAR]

I agree to remove mention of St. Mary's football history, but I will not remove mention of St. Mary's ability to avoid the expense of money, energy, and attention on football.

Anything worthwhile usually requires some effort.

Effort utilizes resources.
Resources are not unlimited, not even at Alabama, etc.

Factors of production (AKA “resources”) are intelligently combined as designated by effective and efficient leadership decision-making to generate returns with a value greater than the cumulative values of the individual factors of production.

[FUBeAR]

Just for clarity…

St. Mary’s last had what anyone would call major college football almost 80 years ago.

They dropped football in 1950 and brought it back as a club sport in 1968, then D3 from 1970-1980, then D2 until 1993, then I-AA/FCS Independent, with mediocre to poor (1-11 in their final year) results playing against a mix of FCS & D2 Teams, never participating in the playoffs, until they dropped football - again…for the 3rd or 4th time (FUBeAR lost count reading up on their history) - 20 years ago.

Nothing about St. Mary’s football appears to have been serious or relevant to anything related to D1 College Athletics since 1946.


OTOH - The most direct causal correlation one can find between St. Mary’s fairly recent rise in the success of their basketball program can be found in the initiation, cultivation, and continual flow of talent via their “Australian pipeline.”

#FactsLivesMatter

All I said was they do not have the expense of football.

“So they do not have the expense of football, with a lot of their basketball excellence coming after they dropped football.”

Clearly implied causation; completely specious. Completely unrelated as shown via full disclosure of the facts of the matter.

Here is another fact - they were giving 16 total football scholarships in their final rendition of “D1 football.” Basically, they dropped their ‘slightly above D3’ football program 20 years ago. There are probably many interesting anecdotes that are “true” about St. Mary’s football, but none of those facts have anything whatsoever to do with the current success of their basketball program.

There is/was absolutely no good reason to mention St. Mary’s Football - irrelevant in and of itself since 1946 - in a discussion of 2023 St. Mary’s Basketball. The height of the tallest building on campus would have been a much more relevant citation.

I agree to remove mention of St. Mary's football history, but I will not remove mention of St. Mary's ability to avoid the expense of money, energy, and attention on football.

Institution City ST Type Enrollment Current Conference
1. American Washington DC Private 10,676 Patriot League
2. Bellarmine Louisville KY Private 3,750 ASUN Conference
3. Belmont Nashville TN Private 6,647 Missouri Valley Conference
4. Binghamton Vestal NY Public 14,746 America East Conference
5. Boston University Boston MA Private 29,978 Patriot League Green
6. Bradley Peoria IL Private 6,700 Missouri Valley Conference
7. Cal State Bakersfield Bakersfield CA Public 8,111 Big West Conference
8. Cal State Fullerton Fullerton CA Public 37,677 Big West Conference
9. Cal State Northridge Northridge CA Public 36,070 Big West Conference
10. California Baptist Riverside CA Private 10,486 Western Athletic Conference
11. Canisius Buffalo NY Private 5,152 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
12. Charleston Charleston SC Public 11,220 Colonial Athletic Association
13. Chicago State Chicago IL Public 7,131 Independent
14. Cleveland State Cleveland OH Public 17,204 Horizon League
15. Coppin State Baltimore MD Public 2,348 Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference
16. Creighton Omaha NE Private 7,730 Big East Conference
17. Denver Denver CO Private 11,476 The Summit League
18. DePaul Blue Chicago IL Private 22,966 Big East Conference
19. Detroit Mercy Detroit MI Private 5,231 Horizon League
20. Drexel Philadelphia PA Private 25,500 Colonial Athletic Association
21. Evansville Evansville IN Private 3,050 Missouri Valley Conference
22. Fairfield Fairfield CT Private 4,991 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
23. Fairleigh Dickinson Teaneck NJ Private 11,000 Northeast Conference
24. Florida Gulf Coast Fort Myers FL Public 12,683 ASUN Conference
25. George Mason Fairfax VA Public 33,320 Atlantic 10 Conference
26. George Washington Washington DC Private 24,531 Atlantic 10 Conference
27. Gonzaga Spokane WA Private 7,764 West Coast Conference
28. Grand Canyon Phoenix AZ Private 44,000 Western Athletic Conference
29. Green Bay Green Bay WI Public 6,700 Horizon League
30. Hartford West Hartford CT Private 6,935 Independent
31. High Point High Point NC Private 4,500 Big South Conference
32. Hofstra Hempstead NY Private 12,400 Colonial Athletic Association
33. IUPUI Indianapolis IN Public 30,461 Horizon League
34. Iona New Rochelle NY Private 4,648 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
35. Jacksonville Jacksonville FL Private 3,200 ASUN Conference
36. Kansas City Kansas City MO Public 16,019 The Summit League
37. La Salle Philadelphia PA Private 7,554 Atlantic 10 Conference
38. Lipscomb Nashville TN Private 4,278 ASUN Conference
39. Little Rock Little Rock AR Public 13,176 Ohio Valley Conference
40. Long Beach State Long Beach CA Public 36,279 Big West Conference
41. Longwood Farmville VA Public 4,800 Big South Conference
42. Loyola Chicago Chicago IL Private 15,068 Atlantic 10 Conference
43. Loyola (MD) Baltimore MD Private 5,080 Patriot League
44. Loyola Marymount Los Angeles CA Private 9,369 West Coast Conference
45. Manhattan Riverdale NY Private 3,500 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
46. Marquette Milwaukee WI Private 12,002 Big East Conference
47. Maryland Eastern Shore Princess Anne MD Public 4,433 MEAC
48. Milwaukee Milwaukee WI Public 30,502 Horizon League
49. Mount St. Mary's Emmitsburg MD Private 2,100 MAAC
50. New Orleans New Orleans LA Public 8,000 Southland Conference
51. Niagara Lewiston NY Private 4,200 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
52. NJIT Newark NJ Public 9,944 America East Conference
53. North Florida Jacksonville FL Public 16,372 ASUN Conference
54. Northeastern Boston MA Private 20,768 Colonial Athletic Association
55. Northern Kentucky Highland Heights KY Public 15,405 Horizon League
56. Oakland Rochester Hills MI Public 19,379 Horizon League
57. Omaha Omaha Nebraska Public 14,903 The Summit League
58. Oral Roberts Tulsa OK Private 3,335 The Summit League
59. Pacific Stockton CA Private 6,196 West Coast Conference
60. Pepperdine Malibu CA Private 7,768 West Coast Conference
61. Portland Portland OR Private 3,537 West Coast Conference
62. Providence Providence RI Private 4,587 Big East Conference
63. Purdue Fort Wayne Fort Wayne IN Public 10,208 Horizon League
64. Queens Charlotte NC Private 2,463 ASUN Conference
65. Quinnipiac Hamden CT Private 8,400 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
66. Radford Radford VA Public 9,370 Big South Conference
67. Rider Lawrenceville NJ Private 5,790 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
68. St. Bonaventure Allegany NY Private 2,400 Atlantic 10 Conference
69. St. Francis Brooklyn Brooklyn Heights NY Private 2,744 Northeast Conference - DECEASED - Now avoiding the expense of money, energy, and attention on Athletics - 9 Men’s Teams & 10 Women’s Teams murdered by Board of Trustees and “Leadership” https://sfcathletics.com/news/2023/3/2 ... ident.aspx
70. St. John's Jamaica NY Private 21,354 Big East Conference
71. Saint Joseph's Philadelphia PA Private 8,750 Atlantic 10 Conference
72. Saint Louis St. Louis MO Private 13,785 Atlantic 10 Conference
73. Saint Mary's Moraga CA Private 4,228 West Coast Conference
74. Saint Peter's Jersey City NJ Private 2,987 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
75. San Francisco San Francisco CA Private 10,017 West Coast Conference
76. Santa Clara Santa Clara CA Private 8,519 West Coast Conference
77. Seattle Seattle WA Private 7,755 Western Athletic Conference
78. Seton Hall South Orange NJ Private 9,745 Big East Conference
79. Siena Loudonville NY Private 3,423 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference
80. SIU Edwardsville Edwardsville IL Public 14,055 Ohio Valley Conference
81. South Carolina Upstate Spartanburg SC Public 5,495 Big South Conference
82. Southern Indiana Evansville IN Public 9,758 Ohio Valley Conference
83. Texas A&M–CC Corpus Christi TX Public 10,510 Southland Conference
84. UC Riverside Riverside CA Public 21,005 Big West Conference
85. UC Irvine Irvine CA Public 28,184 Big West Conference
86. UC San Diego La Jolla CA Public 39,000 Big West Conference
87. UC Santa Barbara Santa Barbara CA Public 21,927 Big West Conference
88. UIC Chicago IL Public 28,091 Missouri Valley Conference
89. UMass Lowell Lowell MA Public 16,969 America East Conference
90. UMBC Catonsville MD Public 13,637 America East Conference
91. UNC Asheville Asheville NC Public 3,644 Big South Conference
92. UNC Greensboro Greensboro NC Public 18,502 Southern Conference
93. UNC Wilmington Wilmington NC Public 14,071 Colonial Athletic Association
94. UT Arlington Arlington TX Public 41,933 Western Athletic Conference
95. Utah Valley Orem UT Public 33,395 Western Athletic Conference
96. UTRGV Edinburg TX Public 28,700 Western Athletic Conference
97. Vermont Burlington VT Public 12,000 America East Conference
98. VCU Richmond VA Public 31,899 Atlantic 10 Conference
99. Wichita State Wichita KS Public 14,806 American Athletic Conference
100. Winthrop Rock Hill SC Public 6,170 Big South Conference
101. Wright State Fairborn OH Public 17,789 Horizon League
102. Xavier Cincinnati OH Private 6,650 Big East Conference

See UPDATE - #69

[Affirm]

Decisive leadership for success, development, and growth of the college as a whole. They dropped football 88 years ago. There are several St. Francis’s. There is one in Loretto, PA, in the same conference (until today with this NY school’s announcement) which is possibly more famous; and I think there are others that are below D-1. I find using “murder” to describe today’s announcement to be uncalled for hyperbole. Each and every school needs to be able to, and obviously has the right to, courageously make strategic decisions for itheir own future, for success, development, and growth.

[Davemeister]

69. St. Francis Brooklyn Brooklyn Heights NY Private 2,744 Northeast Conference - DECEASED - Now avoiding the expense of money, energy, and attention on Athletics - 9 Men’s Teams & 10 Women’s Teams murdered by Board of Trustees and “Leadership” https://sfcathletics.com/news/2023/3/2 ... ident.aspx


We kill the things we love.

[tya1]

My understanding is that making the NCAA basketball tournament is worth about $400,000 per "unit." Winning a game earns an extra unit up to a maximum of 5 per year per participating team . Each unit earns money for 6 years beginning the year after the win. So beating Virginia means two units for 6 years starting next year. Each conference decides how to divide the money, I think the SoCon uses a chunk of the first unit to fund the conference operations, then gives a share to every conference member and a double share to the team that wins the auto bid. I think extra units earned after the first one benefit the teams at a higher rate.(Conference office gets less or none.) Adding the Wofford first round victory in 2019 to Furman's win over UVa means the SoCon will be getting 2 extra units worth per year until 2025. That is about $800,000 more than the minimum per year. Spend it wisely.

Gonzaga's many NCAA victories have been a nice windfall for their fellow conference opponents. Good money for teams like St. Mary to boost their programs. In fact, a few years ago Gonzaga threatened to leave the WCC unless they got to keep more of their earnings. The conference agreed to change the distributions to satisfy Gonzaga.